My Encounter With New Creation Church

I started to believe in Jesus and became a Christian on 2 May 1992 in a denomination church. At first it was a wonderful experience. I was happy to know such a loving and caring God. My days were filled with joy. Going to church, reading the Bible and praying were things I looked forward to do.

However, as months gone by, the dark side of the church began to emerge. It seemed to me that there were 2 layers of the gospel. The first layer is about the love of God – how God loves you that he gave his only Son. Salvation is by faith not works. This layer is used as a marketing gimmick to lure in non-believers to join the church. Once they were in, they will be guided to the second layer.

The second layer of the Gospel is about rules and regulations. It is the dark side of the church usually hidden in any evangelistic events. God demands you to do things for him. He demands you to go to church, read the Bible, pray, go for missions and give him money. Consequently, the things that I used to enjoy became a chore. There was no more joy. He will make you feel guilty if you fail to fulfill the list of chores. Even if you achieve them, he will tell you it is not enough. To make matters worse, the list of chores keep increasing every time I go to church. Salvation by faith has become salvation by rules and regulations. I felt cheated.

No only that, this church had been actively promoting missions. This means church wanted its members to join mission trips and become missionaries to tell people how wonderful this God is. The pastors were experts in manipulating and making you feel guilty if you did not do what they wanted. I was never able to get involved in missions because I considered missions as nothing more than a scam – luring people in using the First Layer and after they were caught, condemn them with the Second Layer. My greatest contribution to the world was not to introduce them to this oppressive religion.

My tolerance was over and the last straw that broke the camel’s back came when the church was planning to build extensions to the existing building. The cost was a few million dollars, which the church did not have. Their solution – squeeze church members for it. At that time, every Sunday service became fund raising campaign. Every manipulative tactic was used to get the church members to cough out the money they wanted. In the opinion of the church leaders, God had already provided the money for the building. It was in the bank accounts of the members. Therefore, it was the responsibility of the church leaders to squeeze them out at all cost.

I asked myself, “Can I trust these pastors anymore?” If they were acting for God, can I respect this God? What type of God will go around asking and manipulating people for money? I left the church.

I was in the dating phase then. So I went to dates’ churches. The good news was, none of them were planning to build anything, thus no fund raising no asking for money. Other than that, the message was the same, God demands you to fulfill the list of things. No more unconditional love for “old” christians.

I did not think that my first church was an isolated case. It was very unlikely that out of all the churches in Singapore, my first church happened to be the only one led by crooks. I suspect the reason why the rest of the pastors did not ask for money was they did not have a building program. So in every sermon, I said in my heart, “Sure, you can talk very well now, but the moment you need money I am sure you will turn into crooks like the pastors in my first church.”

I had no respect for pastors and their God. I don’t need a manipulative God who is only interested in lying and asking for money. However I also dated a Christian girl. I was not prepared to make a drastic change in becoming an atheist. So, my solution was to keep up the pretense. I will just go to church, pretend to be a christian but I will not bother with the messages and I will certainly not give them a single cent.

One day, we came across an unusual church in Suntec City. It was the New Creation Church. There were long queues of people waiting to go in. I said to myself, “Are they no other churches in Singapore that these people can go to? What type of fanatics are these, willing to queue for church service?” After all, based on my observation in other churches there had many empty seats.

That was not all. The stranger part was people were queuing to buy sermon tapes! Aren’t sermons a form of torture to be tolerated? How can anyone with a functional brain spend their money to buy these toxic waste? Of course, I was assuming that the sermons in New Creation Church have the same quality as the rest of the churches I visited.

One day, my girlfriend and I decided to go there after watching a movie in a cinema beside it. I agreed to go there because it was the nearest church from the cinema and I have to keep my pretense but I had decided not to believe anything they said.

The preacher was Pastor Joshua, preaching on salvation by faith through grace. I was amazed. I had never seen anyone so committed to grace. I felt a slight respect for this pastor but I was not going to be cheated again. I suspected that it must be an “evangelistic” sermon, focusing on the first layer of the Gospel.
I was sure if I visited this church often enough, I will get to a sermon on asking for money and promoting mission.

I was wrong. After a few visits, I realised that the message never changed. It was always salvation by faith and nothing else. No manipulations, no asking for money and no missions. This was contrary to my belief all this while. At last I have decided to stay in this church. If I want to pretend to be a christian, I want to do it in a church that is the least evil. I considered the New Creation Church to be the least evil not because I detect any signs of evil there, but it had became my belief system that the word “church” and “pastor” to be inseparatable from evil.

So, we registered for membership. I receive 2 free tapes from the church “Wisdom For Today” and “Benefits Of Tithing”. I tried it out at home. I chose the “Wisdom For Today” first because at that time I considered the word “tithe” to be as vulgar as “mission”. The experience was great! I enjoyed a sermon for the first time. I played the tape over and over again. For the first time after so many years, I was filled with joy and hope. I got to know God for the first time and realize that he truly loves me and not my money. I found a pastor who is not a crook! I still have the tape today but it is spoilt due to over use.

Then I proceeded to try out the “Benefits Of Tithing”. It was another surprise. I realize that tithing is an institution God uses to prosper me. I love it. After listening to the tape, I became very eager for my next salary because I wanted to tithe. For the first time in my life I look forward to tithing.

Thereafter, I became a tape addict. Every Sunday after church, I was queuing to buy tapes and listen to them repeatedly. Later I switched to CDs as I found that the tapes were easily spoilt when I play them repeatedly. New Creation Church is the church I got married in and I have been there till 2 years ago. I do not go there now due to time constrain and the distance from my home. My present spiritual food comes from Jerry Savelle Ministries International in which I am a partner. I will keep believing that one day all my present constraints will be gone and I will bring my family there again.

485 Responses to “My Encounter With New Creation Church”

  1. Daniel Says:

    Thanks be to the God of grace, Mr Yeap, many had the similiar experience as yours, and the Lord is able to open their eyes and is already doing it.

    Yes! Keep believing, keep confessing, because it is true.

    Halleluya

  2. Kev1 Says:

    I thoroughly enjoy Pastor Prince’s messages. There’s always some new revelation from the bible we can learn.

    Shalom,
    Kev1

  3. itooktheredpill Says:

    Good for you Yeap Chee Seng! Don’t worry about the naysayers…they will always be there, but can’t refute the truth:

    The blind…see
    the lame…walk
    the lepers…are cleansed
    the deaf…hear
    the dead…are raised up
    –and–
    the poor… [click here for the answer]

  4. cheee Says:

    Thank you.

  5. Rain Says:

    Cheee —
    God be with you. Riches are nice, but pray for wisdom. “A wise man will hear and will increase learning, and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels. Proverbs 1:5 Pray for Love and Charity. Read I Corinthians Chapter 13. The Last verse of that Chapter, “And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three, but the greatest of these is charity”. “Charity and Love” are the same. Everyone, God Loved us so much that he gave his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins. We must love also to be in the will of God. I am trying presently so hard to learn to simply love people. God please teach us how to Love as you Love. Amen

  6. cheee Says:

    Riches is the result of wisdom. Find out how much God loves you and you will have no problem loving people. I have written a few articles on wisdom. Feel free to read.

  7. Joshen Says:

    Im currently serving in the youth ministry (video) for NCC and It is great encouragement that many who come by us never leave untransformed… such people then go out and continue to be the salt and light of the world in which we live in.

    I too have begun tithing even though I am still studying in SP and I have been greatly blessed. You’re welcome back anytime brother! All Glory to God.

    Shalom,
    Student whom Jesus loves

  8. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    You tithe so early? Your prosperity must be great!

  9. Jeff Yong Says:

    “tithing is an institution God uses to prosper me”… as in “have a need, plant a seed”? Where did you get these ideas from? Not from the Bible surely.

  10. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    The Bible. If you want to know more about the Bible, you are welcome to read all the articles here. I am willing to guide you to the truth. However, if you are only interested in your doctrine worship and theology, I will ex-communicate you.

  11. Brian Says:

    Hi, Yeap –

    I stumbled upon your blog by mistake, but found it interesting so I read some of it. Couple questions: What does New Creation Church teach is God’s purpose for man? And, how can man be reconciled to God? Thanks for your time and hope you reply soon!

  12. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Here is the answer:
    God wants man to be forever free from sin and be with him forever.

    The only way to be reconciled with God is to believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

  13. Brian Says:

    Thanks for your reply. Then, once a person is reconciled to God through faith in Jesus, is that person assured to prosper — or only if s/he tithes? Is God’s purpose for the Bible to bring us prosperity?

  14. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Salvation is prosperity. Once you are a Christian, you are destined to be like God. God prospers in every area of his life. Tithing is God’s instrument to make us rich. Through our tithes, we make it clear that we control our money and not the other way round. As long as money is not your master, you cannot help but to be rich.

  15. Brian Says:

    But you defined salvation differently in your first reply to me, indicating that salvation is being freed from sin and reconciled to God by believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Does God truly prosper the believer in every area of this life? Or does He instead say the believer’s life will be filled with trials, temptations, and persecution? (Matthew 10:17, John 16:33) You say “Tithing is God’s instrument to make us rich.” But like a precursor to today’s taxes, tithes were actually taxes in the Old Testament for funding the national budget in Israel, which was a theocracy. Christians are not even commanded to tithe, as the New Testament teaches, let alone with the notion that doing so will prosper them. Christians voluntarily give to The Lord, not expecting to receive $$ in return.
    How do you biblically support the promise of material riches to the believer?

  16. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    It means the same. Being free from sin and reconciled to God by believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ is prosperity.

    I have written an article on tithe and I can refer to you if you want. The purpose of tithe in the Bible is to make believers rich.

    If you want biblical support the promise of material riches to the believers, click on “Foundation Of Prosperity” on the left side of this blog.

    As for the trials, tribulations and persecutions, please click on the category “Victory Over Trials” at the left side of this blog. I have written quite a number of articles on it.

  17. Brian Says:

    No, Yeap, tithing is not God’s instrument to make us rich, materially or otherwise. I’ve already shared with you what the Bible teaches — that tithing was the paying of taxes in the Old Testament for funding the national budget in Israel, which was a theocracy. Despite what your pieces desperately try to convey (they twist and misapply scripture), there is simply no biblical support for getting rich from tithing because it’s not true.

    You equate salvation, God’s great gift to man, with prosperity (getting $$ rich). Yeap, this reveals that you do not understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God wants the believer to be materially rich. Listen to this:

    “Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils.” (1 Timothy 6:6-10)

    Yeap, do you want riches now (in this life) or later (in eternity)? Jesus says, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?” (Luke 9:23,25)

  18. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Brian,
    The truth prevails no matter how you try to pervert it. I have written on the love of money in this blog. I can show you if you want.

    It seems that you doctrine worshippers think only your kind have the sole right to quote the Bible.

  19. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    By the way thanks for sharing Luke 9:23-25. I am going to write an article on it next week to show its true meaning.

  20. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Hi Brian, I have written an article on Luke 9:23-25 today. I hope you like it.

  21. Sean Says:

    From your blog:
    ” My tolerance was over and the last straw that broke the camel’s back came when the church was planning to build extensions to the existing building. The cost was a few million dollars, which the church did not have. Their solution – squeeze church members for it.”

    How does above differs from the fund raising exercise New Creation Church did for the Integration hub?

  22. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I am not attending New Creation Church anymore. If I do and it uses the same dirty tricks, my respond will still be the same. A sin is a sin. The name “New Creation Church” makes no difference.

  23. Sean Says:

    Hi Chee Seng,

    From your blog, it seems to appear that you are singing praises about NCC, the reasons given for not attending NOW is due to time/distance.

    Question is what is your view on that fund raising exercise, it would seems that you are ok with it given that you plan to bring your family back there again once the current time/distance constraint is over.

  24. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Why should I sing praises to any church? I only state the truth. Before I attend NCC, I was convinced that all churches are run by crooks.

    I can choose whether to attend or not to attend any church as I please. No one can threaten me to go to any church. There is no hudud law here that demands all Christians to attend church.

    As for fund raising, there is nothing wrong with it as long as it is done ethically. This means no threats, no manipulation and no telling people that God has provided the money for the church and the money is not in your pockets.

    As for my future church plan, I don’t think I will go back there for two reasons:
    1. too crowded.
    2. its theme is grace. I prefer prosperity.

  25. Daniel Says:

    Hello Chee Seng
    I chanced into your weblog today. It is interesting to note that your this article was written in Dec 2007.
    I have attended a number of churches myself, and also NCC bible study nights in the past.
    Christians should best read the bible for themselves and ask God for whatever truth we are seeking.
    There are no hidden agendas in christianity.
    There are no two layers of Gospel, etc. There is only one same Gospel.
    Different churches just have different traditions.
    All are our own experiences and perceptions.
    The simplest truth in the bible regarding giving is we give willingly, out of love for God.
    God bless you all.

  26. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    You are right. There is no hidden agenda in christianity. The hidden agenda is the creation of religious churches.

  27. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Brian, I did not put your post up because it takes up to much space. The bottom line is I was in a religious church before and I know all your reasonings. My stand is, I am not interested to be a mindless puppet to be told what I should think and do or I will be send to hell. If your view of christianity is correct, I am not interested to be a Christian.

  28. Jacques de Bois Says:

    Dear Chee Seng,
    I can’t follow the theology here because like all theology it’s a bit complicated.
    When you say you would throw out Christianity if it doesn’t accord with your preferences this (on the face of it) sounds a bit extreme.
    But maybe you have attended churches which emphasise materialistic goals, make huge financial demands on their congregations, and compete for numbers with other churches of the same kind. This seems to be what you are saying.
    I wonder whether you have tried an ordinary church (Anglican or Catholic, for example) where there are not constant demands for money, and where the concern if not materialism but with worshipping God in quietness and gladness, and who support each other pastorally as friends in Christ.

  29. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    My first church is an Anglican. This is the church that tried to squeeze money from its members every Sunday for its building fund.

    I am an engineer not theologian. Christianity is nothing more than a tool to me. It is a means to an end, not an end itself. I was not born with the desire to be a Christian. In other words, I don’t have any Christian genes in me.

    By the way I have never come across any churches that emphasise materialistic goals. I have only been to a church that make huge financial demands on their congregations, that is my first Anglican church.

  30. john Says:

    I have been reading the bible and I feel that
    Matt 19:24 is not aligned to your comments. Pls share your point of view. Thanks

  31. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Matt 19:24 follow by Matt 19:25 and Matt 19:26. Use Matt 19:26 as the context of the whole passage.

    A knife has a sharp edge that can harm you but it also has a handle that enables you to hold it safely. Use it. If you want to pick up a knife, hold the handle. If you want to enter a building, look for the door. Don’t walk straight into the wall. Likewise, look for the handle or door in the Bible.

    You will never go to hell for being rich.

  32. Jacques de Bois Says:

    Dear Chee Seng, thanks for your answer. It clears up some things. But I am still a bit puzzled. You say you do not have a Christian gene in your body and Christianity is just ‘a means to an end’ for you. Could you please tell us what this ‘end’ is? — Jacques

  33. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Anything I want.If I am poor, I want to be rich. If I am sick, I want to be healthy. If I have problems I want to have solutions. Christianity is one of the tools I use.

  34. Jacques de Bois Says:

    Dear Chee, that sounds interesting! It means Christianity is like positive thinking or magic or a genie in a lamp. Does this Christianity have a god or a godlet or something of that kind? Is this godlet something we can just manipulate to get what we want? It sounds like a kind of idol we can use when we want, is that right? Sorry if my questions are a bit naive. I am trying to follow what you mean. As I think about it, it sounds like a kind of techno-religion. You put a coin in the slot, pull the handle, and out pops what you want. Another thing I am wondering is, what the psychology of this means. Does this sort or religion help us be more mature about life? You can probably see I find ideas a bit of a struggle and I don’t understand them very well. But thanks for your answers. They are really interesting.

  35. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Thank you. A tool is a tool. I don’t worship tools. God did not make the man for christianity. He made christianity for man. Christianity is like money, a good servant but a bad master.

  36. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    As for religion, all religions are a waste of time. I consider maturity as being able to use tools and not being used by tools.

  37. Jacques de Bois Says:

    Dear Chee Seng, This is amazing stuff. Can I check the following with you? I am thinking what would happen if my Buddhist friends adopted this prosperity approach too. Instead of renouncing their egos and material attachments so that the Buddha nature would manifest in them, they would use their ascetic exercises to become good at making money. I guess strengthening the ego and getting rich quick might mean renouncing enlightenment. But at least they would have money to hang on to! And it would mean getting rid of religion too. So, it could work for other faiths besides Christianity. The only thing I don’t understand is that Jesus tells us to follow him, and he and gave himself for us. Does his unselfishness mean he was being religious? Would it have been better if he had set up a major business in the Roman Empire with a high turnover and big profits? Lots of people would have followed him because he could have made them shareholders, and maybe used them to expand his market through pyramid selling. And none of this would be religious. But maybe I am running ahead here and that’s why I want to check with you if these ideas are wrong.

  38. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    First, I am not in the position to speak for any religion. All of us have the right to choose whether we want to be above or below our religion. Likewise, we can choose whether to treat a hammer like a tool of like a god.

    Jesus died poor for us to live rich. This is a clear truth no matter how theologians try to manipulate it. The most unselfish thing a Christian can do is to be rich. When you are rich you can choose whether you want or don’t want to help others. When you poor, you don’t have this choice, unless you are talking about giving away 50 cents out of your 1 dollar.

    The bottom line is, choice. I want make my own choice on what I want and I don’t like to be threatened with hell as what religions are doing. Read the articles in this blog and you will see that God is never religious. The worship of religion is idolatary.

  39. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    By the way, I have proven in this blog that Jesus was rich when he was on earth. He never asked people for money or had to take up any jobs to survive. He even had a specialist to carry his wallet for him.

  40. Jacques de Bois Says:

    This is mind boggling stuff–so far from any Christianity I have known before. My mind just races along with it. It seems that Christianity is an instrument for making money. We should use Christianity but not be used by it–for example, we shouldn’t bother caring about others, go to church, tell the truth, respect other people–all that stuff is what theologians require, and what do they know about anything? Jesus justs wants me think about my self, nobody else, and to make a shed load of money just for me. I can see why you put this on a website. It is really different. Wow, did Jesus really teach this, and Christians have been so stupidly kind and self-sacrificial ever since? All those saints and martyrs! Wow, did they miss the point! This is such a big thing, though that occasionally I have doubts. What if I make a shed load of money and then find God didn’t want me do that? Am I just being a catholic when I think like that instead of a born again money making Christian? It takes a while for me to turn my mind round this one.

  41. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Gotcha. You are revealing your theological characteristics now. You have intentionally manipulated my words.

    I never said Christianity is an instrument for making money alone.
    I never said we shouldn’t bother caring about others, go to church, tell the truth, respect other people–all.
    I never said Jesus justs wants me think about my self, nobody else, and to make a shed load of money just for me.

    Theologians are hypocrites. Jesus called them brood of vipers and white washed tombs. The problem of being a catholic is you can still go to hell no matter what you do. My condolence to you.

  42. Jacques de Bois Says:

    Dear Chee Seng, thanks for your reply. You are, as ever, one step ahead of me, and seem to understand me better than myself–which is amazing too. I was thinking we are more alike than you had suggested, and still think this is true (do let me know if I am wrong). We both think Christianity comes down to what we do, more than what we say. I have just been struggling to get my head around the idea that God wants us to be rich–this is a genuinely new idea to me. I had always thought that God blesses and saves the poor–as in the story of Lazarus and the poor man.
    Also, I did not realise you would believe in hell. That surprises me a bit. Can you tell me, might this mean that poor go to hell and the rich go to heaven? This seems topsy-turvy at first. I feel as though I am re-learning the basics. (I was thinking from what you say that there is no hell as God just wants to bless us–but I do not understand these theological ideas, so I need help in working them out. Thanks for your patience, Jacques.

  43. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    The answer is simple. If all your sins are paid for, you are as good as having no sin. You are technically and legally holy. It will be illegal for God to send you to hell. It has nothing to do with you being rich or poor. Can you say the same as a catholic? Is your salvation a certainty regardless of what you do?

    Whether I am rich or poor, my place in heaven is guaranteed by the blood of Jesus at the Cross of Calvary. My salvation is a certainty. I am not getting rich to go to heaven. I want to get rich to be a blessing to all the people on earth.

    By the way, just because I don’t worship christianity, it does not mean that I must be living in sin. As the son of God, my nature is holiness, not sin. In other words, I am not blackmailed into not sinning.

  44. Jacques de Bois Says:

    Dear Chee Seng, thanks for answering me. I have thought that Christ saved me in order to transfigure me, to make me a different person, and that this process takes a long time. To be who God wants me to be is what it means to be saved, and this is a future event. If God is merciful and by his grace I respond, then I shall be saved at the last–thanks be to God. I am glad that you say the poor and the rich can be saved. This encourages me. When you say you want to be rich so that you can bless other people this sounds amazingly cool. You are a generous person and I hope you have opportunity to do this. As to being made holy by Christ, I guess this means you will act in a godly way, resisting wrongdoing and doing what is right. In that case, I would rightly revere you. That sounds like the right way.

  45. E. Tan Says:

    Hi Chee Seng,

    I can relate to what happend and how you may have felt as I did have similar backgrounds in my previous church except that in place of the asking of donations, we have been fed with the need to perform righteous works to show ourselves to be acceptable christians. In short, we have to behave like good christians and any thing short would earn a sharp reproof. Well, I think there’s nothing wrong about being corrected but when it becomes a demand. Just like what you mentioned in your ‘second layer’.

    I’m really joyful to be directed to New Creation Church. From where I sit every Sunday at the overflow rooms, I notice that a good part of the church are elderly people. Nothing wrong about being young, but hey, here’s a church being accused of preaching prosperity (something which can sound quite amateurish) with a whole lot of more experianced persons feeding on the sermons. It shows that the people with experiance have verified and agreed with the doctrines shared.

    But for me, I guess what touched me most is about the revelation about our righteousness in Christ Jesus and then followed by His abounding grace and mercies. That righteousness is a gift from God which causes one to reign in life. I guess this could also be the truth that have let you to understand that our prosperity should be found in Christ as we qualify as righteous to receive from God.

    Btw, I love your direct to the point answer. God bless you.

    Baruk Hashem Adonai,
    E. Tan

  46. Ayn Says:

    Hi, chanced upon your blog recently and what an interesting piece of article you’ve written. Interesting to me because New Creation is currently in the midst of expansion too and investing in this mega project at Buona Vista. Did you experience anything similiar to your ‘exploitative’ relation at your previous church?

  47. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I am not there anymore. Anyway, there can be ethical way of raising funds.

  48. spectator Says:

    I think tithing is good…provided we do it for the right reasons. There are brothers and sisters who need our help finanically wise and we can help a little then all the better. BUT I think to expect something in return for tithing might be missing the point. If we love another, we would help them without expecting anything return. Would you expect your beloved to give you back the money if they didn’t have any? Jesus condemned the authorities for tithing and such but missing the most important thing which was love for GOd and others. Hope it helps.

  49. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I suggest you read the Bible to find out the real purpose of tithing.

  50. joshen Says:

    HEY! Its me again! haha! Its been almost a year since i last posted… wow.. time flies.. How have you been?

    We do have a new building project up at the moment and while we are accepting offerings to help fund the building, the tithes are not going into the building fund.. Tithes are tithes and are meant for priestly uses. We do conduct special “miracle seed” services once or twice a year to give the world a glimpse of how mightily God can work, especially in times of famine.. the last one I’m sure the newspapers made public gathered $19million in 2 hours( 15 mins of offering time X 4 services X 2 sundays) during the recession is nothing short of a miracle..

    the church’s stand is this, god commissioned it, God will pay for it. And how He does it is really amazing… He hides it in the pockets of the people.. If the money that will be used for the building is to be from the common folk, will not God also give them the means? He is not unreasonable that He has to take from one to bless another..

    We at NCC believe that God is not interested in blessing just 1 party… We are blessed to be a blessing! Money should flow from one to another, and not be stagnantly piling up in our hands.. Thats what it is to be faithful with the least..

    As for me, I have seen a change in my finances… No longer do I have to ask my mom for extra cos I ran out in the middle of the week, but I now set aside 20% to go into savings, 10% into tithes and 70% for free spending.. its been almost 3 mths since I needed a “top up” .. And the best part is the mth that i gave the most, i ended up having the most surplus as well..

    I believe personally that while Prosperity is good, our focus should not be on it.. Why chase after prosperity when you can follow the One who prospers you? Cos what we want isnt really the money, but what the money can bring.. Jesus can bypass all that and give you straight the blessedness..

    Prosperity alone definitely does not bring peace and joy… Look at King Solomon… the richest man ever lived… Everything his eye desired he could have… but he HATED life.. until he realized that it was a God shaped hole.. and sought the Lord again..

    Hope to hear from you soon? Be greatly blessed!
    Rgds,
    Joshen

  51. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Nice try but I suspect only the true Christians will take you seriously. The doctrine worshippers and theologians will continue to believe what the devil wants them to believe.

    In other words, if you say bad things about the church, they will take your words as Gospel truth but the moment you give any positive testimony, they will call you a liar.

    The bottom line is, it is a waste of time to reason with fools.

  52. Albert Says:

    Hi…

    Chanced upon this site and was going through the various views.

    I’ve been a Christian for over 20 years and have been attending NCC for the past 5…

    I only believe in one thing… Critique is good and healthy… But most importantly, the only reason I’ve stayed in this church is because my life has been transformed.

    I was a smoker for 18 years and tried umpteenth times to quit without any success. Coming here made me put Jesus first and that changed everything. Not overnight I must say, but like most things that last in life, it’s all a process.

    There’s just so many things I can say about my transformed life but I think I’d just encourage all to ask ourselves if the church we’re going to makes us love God more?

    In my whole Christian life, I’ve been “trying” to love God but here, I feel God’s love for me so much that I endeavour to discover Him and His Love for me everyday…

    We’re all a family of Christians… Prosper or not is really immaterial. But I do believe that our God is a Big God and if He has not witheld Jesus from us, how much more will He provide for our every need?

    God bless you and your blog!

  53. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Thanks Albert for your testimony.

    Here is some truth on prosperity.
    Prosper or not is immaterial only to those who have no intention to help others. Those of us who have the desire to help others to the best we can will also want to increase the limitations on “the best we can”. Thus we desire to prosper.

  54. Jay Says:

    Most church will try to squeeze u of your money .The common words they use are ”The more money u donate to god ,the more breakthrough u will get .You will receive reward ,threefold ,fourfold ”

  55. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Jay,

    I am willing to take the chance. I am happy to give.

  56. Oh Tham Eng Says:

    Interesting exchanges here, Bro Chee Seng. I now understand you better. But my bad experiences with churches were worst than you. It is a marvel how I still remain as a Christian.

    Those blatant liars (whom you called “crooks”) wanted me as their cash cow. With their left hand, they reach out for my money. With their right hand, they stabbed me in my back for the good that I tried and succeeded doing. Even non-Christians have better moral standard than they.

    My best friend, for your info is a Taoist. But of course, my greatest friend is Jesus Who died for me to save me and cleanse me of all my unrighteousness with His precious Blood. So I need to be humble and trusting of Him.

  57. aah-haa Says:

    Out of curiosity I click this thread. The central theme seemed to be tithe, donation and prosperity.
    To me there is a fine distinction between prosperity and rich (monetary/material wealth to be specific).
    There are many routes to be rich – postpone consumption, being miser/spendthrift, save & don’t shop, lucky strike (Toto, 4D), inheritance, gifts, embezzlement, high salaries, obscene bonus, multiple incomes, cheating, conning, good investments, squeeze everything …. give nothing, hoard everything.
    To me prosperity comes from hard work, thrift, conscientious savings, ploughing back, good harvests, ….. like the good old days of farmers not corporate head honchos, mini-bond bankers and casino high-rollers!
    So if one prospers the way I described above, there is nothing wrong. For the route to riches, some are obviously wrong, especially ill-gotten gains.
    What do religions say about monetary/material riches?

  58. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Who cares what religions says? The question is what do you want?

  59. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Bible prosperity covers every area of life.

  60. aah-haa Says:

    Yeap: Who cares what religions says? The question is what do you want?
    Hmm …. I suppose I had posed the question in a wrong forum. What do I want? … after 3 square meals or 1 good buffet per day, ….. good health and contentment. This may sound cliché but I guessed many would say riches will enable material comforts and sensual pleasures.

    “Bible prosperity covers every area of life.”
    Sorry, don’t get what is bible prosperity. Any lucky numbers, formulas, or roadmap for getting rich to be found in the bible? If so, print more bibles and send to the poorest parts of Africa.

  61. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    https://cheee.wordpress.com/category/my-dreams/

    The Bible is only a tool. You need to learn how to use it.

  62. aah-haa Says:

    Is there a training centre other than NCC that teaches one how to use the bible as a tool to riches?

  63. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Top right side of this blog.

  64. getfreefromdebt Says:

    Just came across your blog and had to say hello. We live in the US and for years have been avid listeners of KCM, Creflo, Jerry Savelle and Bill Winston. In 2009, my mom ran across a Joseph Prince broadcast. She got me hooked and I in turn passed along the good news to some friends at our church. We all had taken faith to the extreme in that we were seeing it as something we had to do…as if we had to earn God’s grace. But of course, grace is a free gift. We were so frustrated, exhausted, condemned and guilty thinking that we must be doing something wrong because we weren’t seeing healings manifest in our lives. Through Joseph we learned about mixing law and grace and how that makes both ineffective. I believe that’s what we were doing. You are so blessed to be able to sit under Joseph in person to receive from the Word.

    Christy
    http://www.OverflowLiving.com

  65. Absolutenornot Says:

    Good church? Yes!
    Absolutely correct in all their Bible teachings? You tell yourself with your heart & mind? GOD knows best.
    Far better than most, if not all churches? Probably, can be a yes.
    Believe all that Pastor there preached & teached? All?
    GOD has to restore your mind if you say 100 per cent yes.

  66. Mark Wong Says:

    I have attended Catholic churches for the past 20 years since my baptism and in this time I have only heard once a sermon concerning the giving of money to church. A priest once defended why the Church would not want to impose tithes which is a OT requirement. He said to do so would be to have no faith in divine providence. He believes that God will touch the heart of man to rise to the occasion when needed. And indeed through the years, even when there were building expansion and welfare fundraising, there was never any compulsion for us to give.
    I am sorry to hear of your experiences. I asked a priest friend of mine whether he is concerned about money since I know they only receive a stipend of a few hundred dollars every month and he said that he doesn’t even think about it; his whole concern was always to celebrate the Eucharist with his whole mind, soul and strength.

  67. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Looks like Catholic churches are not as greedy as their Protestant counterpart.

  68. Why Is Santa Clause Better Than The Religious Jesus | FaithDirt Says:

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  69. Coreen Says:

    Dear Chee Seng, This is amazing stuff. Can I check the following with you? I am thinking what would happen if my Buddhist friends adopted this prosperity approach too. Instead of renouncing their egos and material attachments so that the Buddha nature would manifest in them, they would use their ascetic exercises to become good at making money. I guess strengthening the ego and getting rich quick might mean renouncing enlightenment. But at least they would have money to hang on to! And it would mean getting rid of religion too. So, it could work for other faiths besides Christianity. The only thing I don’t understand is that Jesus tells us to follow him, and he and gave himself for us. Does his unselfishness mean he was being religious? Would it have been better if he had set up a major business in the Roman Empire with a high turnover and big profits? Lots of people would have followed him because he could have made them shareholders, and maybe used them to expand his market through pyramid selling. And none of this would be religious. But maybe I am running ahead here and that’s why I want to check with you if these ideas are wrong.
    +1

  70. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Dear Coreen,

    What you have brought up is a typical carnal mindset. Somehow, material possession is evil. The rich are evil, greedy and oppressive while the poor are honest, good and generous. Such “enlightenment” is not found in the Bible.

    In fact, Jesus made his first pots of gold before he reached the age of 2. He had a disciple who specialized in carrying his wallet. When he was arrested, the Roman soldiers cast lots for his clothes. I don’t think they wanted to use it as rags to clean their camps.

    I believe many Buddhists want to have more money in order to do more good.

  71. sugi Says:

    Wake up, how can you Singaporeans be so gullible? Can’t trust yourself enough? Have to believe in some hairy fairy Jesus and part with your $ so that your pastors can live in 500k condo? You’re already kiasu, some more kiasi kah? Start to live life while you’re still young and not waste your youth praying to a non existent god. Heaven is here, start living !

  72. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Amen.

  73. steven Says:

    too much grace

  74. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    too much hope, too much joy, too much strength, too much love, too much prosperity, too much life, too much health in Jesus’ name. Amen.

  75. Krystabel Says:

    Hey yeap, i happen to go to your page because i was looking for a verse. Now i found it, thanks to you…

    I’m currently in Hope Church. This church is so different and once you join in you will be challenged to the max but one thing I like the most is the shepherding system to help me and course they can only help you in terms what is good and what is bad but only God and the holy spirit will be able to change you… Yes i agree, there are so many churches out there that do not walk with God and we must understand if a church does things that displeased God, it means God is not with them. But most importantly, if we encounter such churches, we must pray and intercede so that God will pour His spirits to these people and made them fear God ultimately.. Jesus says that we are his body… If one member of the body suffers, it means the rest of the body suffers too.. Basically, this also means how much you actually has the burden for your brothers and sisters in Christ and towards the whole nation. In the Old Testament, God wants His people to pray for the whole nation…. Actually it is so easy, to be a Christian by name… Go to church, read bible, pray and have fellowship with one another… That’s what we normally think… But trully, that’s not only what God wants in our life. We forget to ask ourselves is our life is a living testimony to those around us… Do the things we do is an act of worship… Do Christ lives in us??? Being a Christian there is so many priviledges(do i spell correct-haha), blessings from God… but what if challenges come can we still rejoice?? Surely, when God gives you so many blessings, He wants something in return but bear it mind the trials he gave you is not to destroy you but to prosper you…. Christianity is not a religion but a loving and close relationship with God..Do everyone of us have it, if yes… your life will be so much beautiful and your life on earth can be like heaven too.. To all my brothers and sisters in Christ, God bless you.

  76. Krystabel Says:

    I think it’s best not to condemn other religions, because if we are perfect we will be in heaven by now…But we can show them the road to salvation and through the blood of Christ, they will be set free.

  77. Zoe Says:

    Hi Chee Seng,

    You mentioned you were a tape addict and that you no longer go to New Creation Church because of distance and time constraints. Your post was written some time ago and I’m not sure whether you feel the same way.

    If you are still interested in Pastor Prince’s messages, they are available for download at $8/message or subscription by post at $140/20 messages at http://www.destined2reign.com

    Just fyi in case you are still keen on receiving the messages but can’t due to distance and time. I don’t work for the church. 🙂

  78. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Thanks Zoe.

  79. Esther Bay Says:

    As a christian we must remember that when we tithe out of our hearts not that God must bless us back in 100 folds. It is all up to the will of God! Blessings from God not neceesarily money $ but God can bless you with good children or good health! If yoou expect God is bless you back a hundred folds it means that you are bargaining with God! In the bible times many christians suffer like Paul the faithful servent suffering in jail and yet he praise God while he is suffering! Blessings is in His Time not your time! Do not treat God like Geanie or ATM machine! The poor widow that Jesus praised who gave her last 2 coins in the temple, she still died as a poor widow! But her treasures are in heaven not on earth!

  80. Esther Bay Says:

    I am from a Methodist church and our pastor will not impose on 10% tithe. If you have heavy family commitments you give whatever amount you can afford as God loves a cheerful giver! God will bless you in His Time not your time!
    Do not put your tithes with condition that God must bless you back a hundred folds! Its all up to Him! Remember when we pray for our needs end it with “Let your will be done not mine!”

  81. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    That is very politically correct. I am sure the pastors of my first church will approve.

  82. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    By the way, many Christians told me that tithing is no longer applicable today.

  83. 0 Credit Says:

    I’m currently in Hope Church. This church is so different and once you join in you will be challenged to the max but one thing I like the most is the shepherding system to help me and course they can only help you in terms what is good and what is bad but only God and the holy spirit will be able to change you… Yes i agree, there are so many churches out there that do not walk with God and we must understand if a church does things that displeased God, it means God is not with them. But most importantly, if we encounter such churches, we must pray and intercede so that God will pour His spirits to these people and made them fear God ultimately.. Jesus says that we are his body… If one member of the body suffers, it means the rest of the body suffers too.. Basically, this also means how much you actually has the burden for your brothers and sisters in Christ and towards the whole nation. In the Old Testament, God wants His people to pray for the whole nation…. Actually it is so easy, to be a Christian by name… Go to church, read bible, pray and have fellowship with one another… That’s what we normally think… But trully, that’s not only what God wants in our life. We forget to ask ourselves is our life is a living testimony to those around us… Do the things we do is an act of worship… Do Christ lives in us??? Being a Christian there is so many priviledges(do i spell correct-haha), blessings from God… but what if challenges come can we still rejoice?? Surely, when God gives you so many blessings, He wants something in return but bear it mind the trials he gave you is not to destroy you but to prosper you…. Christianity is not a religion but a loving and close relationship with God..Do everyone of us have it, if yes… your life will be so much beautiful and your life on earth can be like heaven too.. To all my brothers and sisters in Christ, God bless you.
    +1

  84. kit Says:

    Its amazing how many people here not from NCC but commenting on NCC like they been inside.

    1) Pastor Prince never ever force anyone to tithe. Never. He even asked the church on many many occasions NOT to tithe unless they understand and get the revelation on what tithing is all about.

    2) Tithing is established many many years before the law ( Abraham tithed to Melchizedek) – Issac, his grandson, sowed in famine ground and reap a 100 folds. There are like so many examples in the bible on tithing. Under grace as we are today, we don’t NEED to tithing, but we GET to tithe, because we are blessed and we are “bringing back” the tithe to God through the Church. Some people dun trust the church with the funds, well, what other ways can you tithe to the Lord unless through the church? If not, you can always choose not to tithe, just dun degrade those who believes that God prospers.

    3) This year’s Miracle seed Sunday ( a fund raiser for the building), for example, was announced ONE week b4 the tithing sunday. For the whole of 2010 so far, no message has been on tithing. Not one. In a week, the church willingly gave an amount of 21 million dollars.

    4) Some people think that NCC have this long drawn out campaign over months to grab money. They only see what the church is doing they must be fanatics, or the church leaders must have been manipulative…etc) , but the world do not see what God is doing.

    Come on, such a big amount – God must be involved! instead of raining praises on Jesus who moved the people of the church, the world degrades the church.
    It is indeed a warped world, especially when Brothers and Sisters in Christ are so against the good that is evident for all to see! Praise Jesus!

  85. Kemmie Says:

    I love and listen to Pastor Prince on tbn back home in Africa. I know i will soon attend hs church. For prosperity,faith and do the word sermons just go for pastor Chris Oyakhilome’s website in christ embassy church. He is a blessing to me. Eversince i joined christ embassy,my life changed. To those in twitter you can follow him at http://www.twitter.com/pastorchrislive. Poverty aint in ma dictionary coz the whole world belongs 2me,i mean,i am abraham’s seed,hahaha,haleluya,glory to God. I love giving alot and tithing is ma thng. Jesus said,it is more blessed 2give than 2receive. So what’ya waitin’ 4?

  86. jesus Says:

    i prefer the catholic church compare to protestant, they use the gospel as their sales product.

  87. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    You forgot to say that catholics have right doctrines and protestants have wrong doctrines.

  88. joseph Says:

    I am a singaporean and i am now 37 years of age and i am facing great financial difficulty and evicted out of my rental flat because i am unemployed and cannot make rents.
    I called and made appointments to see the pastor and he told me a lot of advise that were not what i needed from the church. and he asked me to lower my expectations with my thoughts on how the church can help me. i give tithes to this church and now when i need financial help from them they told me no and should go to CDC and ask them instead. what kind of a church helps thousands and thousands of charity groups when they don’t even want to help just one. Now i am penniless and don’t even have anything to eat and have been starving. and what did they tell me? we will stand in faith with your situation and pray…i have done all that!!!! don’t they think i have done all that? praying, reading the bible, believing? i have approached CDC and they rejected my application because last year i already applied for aid. and for 2 years i could not get a permanent job. and to think that i didn’t pray for a miracle? i prayed all day all night, and nothing seems to happened. i am alone and without family. they were divorced when i was 18 years ago and have been living alone ever since.

    i am the only child and know no relatives. my friends have all left me and i have no one else to help me except Jesus and God. and is not the body of christ the church? for once i thought that even if the world rejected me and not helped me i could have at least have the church to help me, a place where i can depend on, and this is the first time i have approached the church for help and they turn me down. All the things mentioned in the bible of how the church represents in a christian’s life has suddenly turned 180 degrees on me when all they say was call the cdc to help you. they collected $21 million dollars from the last miracle seed sunday this year which i also gave with the last of my money and now not even a single cent trickle out of their pockets to help me…all i got after 8 years of tidings is $110, $100 for the first appointment and $10 yesterday. how much can this last me until? i have to work for a full month before i get paid than and nothing else was given to me. is this how a church helps its members? all i wanted to asked the pastor was to help me with my back rents amounting to $3700 so that i wont get evicted but it seems too much for them, though they are pouring millions and millions into a new building which means nothing to me now because that building is not going to feed me or help me with my rents. I have been tiding and I am not exaggerating but it is more than the amount I required to help me along. For 8 years every time I get paid, regardless of how much, I would tithe. Am I ashamed to be asking it back, honestly no one cares if I live or die, I am alone when it comes to my problems, so I really don’t care either. I used to but now with the church’s attitude towards me, I really don’t care anymore.

    I don’t know why i am writing this email to you, or how it can help me but i guess i just want to know is it right for a church not to help its members? I am not like some other who owns condo, cars and fancy hand iphones and yet asked for financial aid. i have no phone because i sold it, no gold, no car, no home. I sold all I have that were sellable and gave a portion to new creation church as well and the pastor knows it and yet nothing came out except the reply was ” we will stand in faith with you in prayers” about your financial situation, but we cant help you with money. how can this be? how can a church that preaches grace, generosity and truth suddenly turn their back to me? i prayed to God to help me everyday and feed me. the last thing i wanted to do was to ask the church for help but after all that i can think of finally run out, i thought perhaps the church will help after all that is where i get my bread from. but not even crumbs did they give. what kind of church does pastor joseph prince runs? i was very hurt and sad by the way they treated me. and as i was waiting to see the pastor, the staff can even boast about taking long holidays while i was hungry and tired from walking all the way to church to seek help. the only kind person that gave me food was DAVID CHEN, who is not a pastor, he was the only one who bought me macdonald’s food, something i have not eaten for almost a year. but than he was not the decision maker, he told me all the decisions are done by the pastors. They said no. please explain to me the rational when it comes to tidings, its so fast for the churches to collect but it comes to giving and helping others they just say go to CDC or is it just me. what is the meaning of this. By the way I joined one of their care groups and to my surprise one of its members told me after hearing about my situation, ” I am glad you did not ask me for money, actually I am very relieved that you did not mentioned it.” At that point I just lost my appetite even though I was so hungry before and I just gave up attending.

    One non believer who knows me even asked me, why is your church not helping you? you give so much to the church and now when your really in need they turn you down? do you know how shameful it feels like for me to hear that? and they ask me to join their religion instead. but i did not because deep down inside i know GOD is good and kind and merciful and generous but the church is making me hate how i feel right now towards God because the church is the body of christ and to see how cold and selfish new creation church has been to my situation has left me dry to the born towards God’s love for me. By the way I have gone to chinese temples and even they give me food and money to find work and travel. They did not say to me “call CDC” and I don’t even tithe to them.

    I contacted SOS and even they asked me to approach my church for financial aid. And yet I still tithe to new creation church believing in the goodness of christ, but never did I know that at the last day of my greatest challenges, they would tell me call CDC and a lot of “should have done this and that and this and that” advices. like i quote pastor prince phrases” i don’t need an actor to act out my drowning when i KNOW i am drowning”, I need a helping hand. But it seems that in my case, Jesus has choose not to use the church as the channel to help me, according to the church that is.

    By the way i don’t think new creation church knows how CDC processes each case files. It usually takes a month before you know if the request for financial aid is accepted or not and the maximum they will aid you with is $200 (for a one time only). I find it ridicules again because CDC is not the body of christ but the government. So why don’t they ask CDC to bless them when it comes to raising funds to help spread the gospel by building a new church at one north at the costs of $billion of dollars. Yes I love to see more and more people getting saved by Jesus but after getting saved who will helped them if they are in need? like myself? push everything to Jesus and the CDC, because this is what the church is for? Free advise and not a single cent to spare? Is this faith and grace? or just faith no grace, and a reason not to get involve into other people’s sad stories, again maybe it is just me they choose not to help. By the way new creation church could and probably will ban me from coming again but I have no intention to return.

    I have not given up on Jesus or God but I have given up on the church and its people because all they can say is “you have to make appointment to see the pastor because he is very busy, to talk and advise you what to do, the rest is out of the question especially money but please ask CDC to help you with that”. God bless and Shalom. Whether you are hungry or penniless is not our problem but Jesus your savior’s problem and the CDC because we have the financial assistance policy. GOD knows what this policy is because I don’t.

    I thought when I was young I had lost my only family, but when I found this church I was hopeful at least here I found brothers and sisters, but in the end I only found people who treated me as a stranger and a burden to their time tables except DAVID CHEN whom not knowing me is the only one in new creation church in all my 8 years, treated me like a human being who is hungry and bought me lunch.

  89. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Do you really have the impression that your tithe is your insurance against economic downturn? If that is the case, you should have asked for the contract before you tithe.

    There is nothing wrong in asking for help but you must realise that all institutions are limited. How do you want the church to help you? Give you the money to buy food for another 10 days? What happens after 10 days? If you really believe in God, I would have expected you to write in a more positive way.

    By the way, is there really a religion that offers free food for life for anyone who joins them? I am sure there is a long queue of people wanting to be in.

  90. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Dear Joseph,

    After reading your story in detail, I realise that the real solution is not to look for people who is willing to throw money at you. Ask yourself what is the root cause of your problems. You are 37 years old, still renting, unemployed for 2 years and had seek CDC help before. You lament on the fact that the church does not give you more money. Let me ask you this question. How many other church members receive money from the church? Surely there are many members who gave more than you and still not received a single cent from the church.

    Why are you unemployed? Are you a victim of circumstances? Do you have the power to change? How should you change? Can you change by going to churches and temples to ask for money?

  91. Why Is Santa Clause Better Than The Religious Jesus | Names of Jesus Says:

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  92. Evony Buddy | Home Says:

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  93. Jason Morgan Says:

    “I am an engineer not theologian. Christianity is nothing more than a tool to me. It is a means to an end, not an end itself. I was not born with the desire to be a Christian. In other words, I don’t have any Christian genes in me.”

    Christianity is Christ following. You, sir, are so confused. No, actually, I don’t believe you are confused. You are selfish and the god of your own life and making and you have the love of money (which Jesus said you can’t have and love God at the same time Matt 6:24). I pray for you to repent, turn from your evil self and money worship, and look to the Biblical Jesus for grace and mercy because you will go to Hell for eternity if you do not repent and have saving faith in Jesus Christ. A by-product of that saving faith would mean you quit contorting scripture. You would begin to accept God’s word for what it is.

    Jason

  94. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Thank you for presenting the true nature of theology. Unfortunately, both God and I are engineers. We hate theologians.

  95. Mario Says:

    GOD is not going to entrust you with large amounts of money if you are not able to even take care of what you already have (i.e. tithing, family, etc.), the immediate things. If you prove to be a good steward of your money, GOD will prosper you! The key word here is “Stewardship”. We are all stewards of everything that we have. Nothing belongs to YOU! If you are faithfull in the little things, GOD will entrust you with bigger things. If you are truly in the Kingdom of GOD, you will think and act accordingly. Meaning…using your resources for Kingdom purposes. I too, would love to find a way to make lots of money. It makes sense that when you have lots of money/ resources, you are able to help more people. If you are slave to society and religion, then you time will be limited in doing so. I pray that GOD gives many revelation on this. If you just want money and want to please yourself, well…just ask the devil. I’m sure he will be glad to provide that for you along with your soul.

  96. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    You are theologically wrong. The theological correct answer is, God wants you poor in order to teach you humility.

  97. Lawrence H Narayan Says:

    You fully support tithing in this day and age.

    Could you please show me written and historical evidence of the Pastor’s family lineage that confirms he is from the tribe of Levi to whom you pay your tithes from your back garden.

    Also show me written evidence that can be challenged in a court of law that this particular Pastor is not the descendant of Barabbas the murderer, Judas Iscariot, Pontius Pilate or King Herod then only I will believe in your tithing.

  98. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Could you please show me written and historical evidence that you must show written and historical evidence in order to be a pastor?

    Also show me written evidence that can be challenged in a court of law that pastors cannot be the descendant of Barabbas the murderer, Judas Iscariot, Pontius Pilate or King Herod then only I will believe in your non-tithing.

  99. The Restful Increase Says:

    Chee, I’m so happy to read your post.:) I experienced the same thing in my old church.:) I am from the Philippines and have visited New Creation Church last January. I decided to visit at least 2x a year. Awesome. Shalom!

  100. joel from India. Says:

    First, you change your thinking and outlook. Even Jesus spent a good deal of his time ministering to people which is why people like you can be sure of jesus’s credentials. Otherwise, if Jesus was a lazy sucker like you, then we would not be willing to believe in His sacrifice, His life and His faith and works. and yes, in His great commission to save others to saving faith and grace of GOD through JESUS. So whichever church you go to and whichever ministry you believe in if you do, then grow up and start contributing to the church, mission and ministry!!

    IF u have kids, would you behave like a carefree bachelor or a responsible father to them? You have to grow up my dear! Your roles and responsibilities change with time. So also, as a christian, you have to grow up and start growing up to accept and execute more responsibilities!

    For the BIBLE says : “How beautiful … are the feet of who bring good news, who proclaim peace, who bring good tidings, who proclaim salvation … ” acco. to ISAIAH 52 : 7. . In your Singapore, a christian like you can be lazy. Come to India and regions like west asia and middle east, where christians are peresecuted. Then you talk about being unwilling to do mission work or contributing to them because its a ‘scam’. If you are not convinced by NCC, Singapore and think its a “SCAM”, why don’t you expose them with evidence and proofs in a court of law?

    If being POOR teaches us humility and faith in GOD, then why dont you give up all your belongings to GOD! Why don’t you give the poor people all you have? Lets see how much faith you have. How much do you have in your bank account btw?

    If you have an allergy to tithing, why don’t you suggest a better way to christians from The WORD of GOD!

    Btw, GOD is not just an ENGINEER. But rather, first and foremost, a CREATOR, a LOVING HEAVENLY FATHER, a RIGHTEOUS JUDGE and OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT and OMNIPRESENT ALLMIGHTY GOD!!! Just bcoz u r an engineer, don’t try to project God like one. IF GOD is an engineer and NOT a DIVINE CREATOR and DESIGNER, then can you please enlighten us on what materials He used to make the HEAVENS and the EARTH? And also, what quantity of materials and the time frame for completing the project? And yes of course, what about the detailed project report before starting the ENGINEERING PROJECT of CREATION?

    But If you are just trying to malign A faithful servant of God, their church and ministry, then woe to you on the day of Judgement. Acco. to the BIBLE : “TIMOTHY Chapter 3, Verse 1 : ” But mark this: there will be terrible times in the last days. VERSE 2 : … people will be lovers of themselves, … VERSE 3 : … slanderous, … not lovers of good, … VERSE 5 : having a form of Godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. VERSE 7 : Always learning, but never able to acknowledge the truth. VERSE 8 : just as JANNES and JAMBRES opposed MOSES, so also these men oppose the truth – men of depraved minds who as far as the faith is concerned., are rejected” TIMOTHY 3 : 1 – 8. (NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION – NIV BIBLE -). This seems to be an apt description for you Mr. YEAP CHEE SENG!

    So BROTHER, REPENT AND COME BACK TO THE SAVING FOLD AND GRACE OF JESUS CHRIST. Believe in sound doctrine and life changing missions and the abounding Grace of GOD for sinners like you and me. FInd a GOD fearing, bible believing church. As long as they follow GOD’S doctrine.

    Or else, your time is running out. Your loving family will see you in hell fire! If thats your desire,. be prepared to have the smoke of your BBQ reaching out from HELL to your loved ones in HEAVEN.

  101. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    You are an example of delusion.

  102. brandy Says:

    I am a member of a baptist church and my pastor preaches from the Bible and we tithe like the Bible says and when people are in need they help out. I am sorry about your bad experience with churches but If you truely find the right one you will feel closer to God and know that missions are apart of our human duty to God if he calls us to be a mission worker and if not there is nothing wrong with donating money to help out. God bless you.

  103. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    As surely as the Lord lives, I will never get into missions in Jesus’ name. Amen.

  104. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    The obligation for missions and giving money to the church were not included in the evangelistic marketing ploy.

  105. kenny Ken Says:

    CS… you are good example of new testment living ppl … dnt being threaten by those who so call 神的使者。。活出神的样子。。。而不是使者的滑稽样子。。amen !

  106. E t Says:

    Dear yeap Chee seng,

    I encourage you to seek God. His presence is everywhere. We cannot judge over the church and the pastor.

  107. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Not only have I judged the church and the pastor, preachers, theologians and priests have been doing the same.

  108. nup Says:

    I’m curious, Chee, do you actually know what theologians do and what Bible scholars are for? I’m concerned that what you’re really worshipping is wealth as an idol, a fortune god repackaged as Christ. The only people who lie are those who take Bible verses out of context, misinterpret it and present it as truth – it is misleading at best, heresy at worst. this is the problem with the layman Christian arrogantly insisting that his interpretation is superior to church authority who have undergone formal theological training. do you reckon you know more than the Pope about doctrine? I beg you before you cast judgment to let go of your prejudice and try and listen, really listen, to what the gospel is really about. salvation is not found in doctrine(man-derived, i’ll give you that.) – Hallelujah – so it’s not like we’re expected to explain the concept of the Trinity before we’re allowed in heaven. salvation is found Christ alone. and until you recognize the power and the mercy behind it and why we need it, will you understand the grace and beauty of what Jesus did – all these cannot be found in wealth or prosperity. the believing Christian will understand that suffering is in store, we must pick up our cross.

  109. nup Says:

    “I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own
    appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.” Romans 16:17-18 (ESV) peace be with the brothers and sisters in Christ who stumble upon this page after searching about the prosperity gospel, that those in genuine search for answers find it, and not be swayed by falsehoods or your own pride or earthly longings of the flesh. For Jesus promised: “You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.”(Jeremiah 29:13) Christianity is not a tool, and to those who view it as such – I’m afraid – have not fully comprehended what identifying yourself as a Christian means. If the Bible is just a self-help manual to you, you’d probably find a Jefferson bible more useful than an NIV or an ESV because I honestly wouldn’t know what you’re going to make out of Leviticus or Revelations. God is not my ATM. Our “kingdom is not of this world”(John 18:36). joy and love for God is found in His infinite grace and mercy upon sinners, overcoming death and being in awe of His holy wrath and justice. “The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.”(Psalm 23) He is our All in All, and nothing less than our Everything because He has granted unmerited eternal life with His mercy. to shift the fulcrum of His sacrifice at Calvary, to even THINK He died on the cross JUST so you can be rich or ‘successful’, is astonishing, heartbreaking and terribly frustrating. “Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.”(Galatians 1:10) i hope you find the weight of the peace from knowing Christ.

  110. nup Says:

    “See, he is puffed up; his desires are not upright–but the righteous will live by his faith” (Habakkuk 2:4) followers live by faith; the heart is transformed; the desires of the flesh are crucified and the fruit of faith is telling. “he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. But godliness actually is a means of great gain when accompanied by contentment. For we have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either. If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content. But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” (1 Timothy 6:4-10).

  111. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Some Christians are not masochists.

  112. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Peace has no mass. Therefore in a gravity field, it has no weight.

  113. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    My calling is to help people like you not to love money by taking away all your money.

  114. Jen Says:

    Hi Yeap,
    As many others have also said, I stumbled upon your blog (almost) entirely by accident. I find your comments to a lot of these witty and refreshing… it can sometimes be so easy to take ourselves too seriously. I’ve just begun to think about any of this just two weeks ago seeing Joseph Prince on tv and I’m finding more and more just keeps being revealed to me and making total sense. The more I want to know, the more I find! That wouldn’t be *so* spectacular as far as “Laws of the Universe” are concerned, anyone could say that,but what is amazing to me is that the more I find the more I feel like it’s right. I grew up in all sorts of Christian churches and Jesus/Bible/church became kind of like mocking words “Oh man, not those Christians again, don’t they ever shut up? Nice delusion, buddy” was pretty much how it went for me for a LONG time. Finding Pastor Prince and NCC has finally felt like maybe Christianity isn’t so crazy after all, and the ONLY time I’ve felt that way. And if it hasn’t already been clear, well it’s like a dam broke or something, like someone opened the floodgates.

    Alright, so this is probably long enough for now. I wish you well, and keep writing! (=

  115. Arnie Kwan Says:

    Ha, you almost had me. I thought you were talking about Christianity! Like that poor sod from Galilee and his loser gang of beggars and all that tired old routine. Then, like a flash of bling, I realized, you are actually talking about money! About joining the New Creation church and how that will lead to wealth creating opportunities $$$!!! Pastor Joshua must be very prosperous and successful and it would be such a wonderful opportunity learn from him the secrets of wealth creation through tithing! You must have learned and profited so much yourself as you have started your own venture! The tapes must be such valuable instructional aides that people queue up to buy them! Do they cover international markets or only local? Is it about any specific financial area? Real estate? Stock market? Or just general wealth creation principles? So excited and can’t wait to find out more at Suntec!

  116. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Read the above post and pray for discernment.

  117. A.James. Says:

    We have Ten Pastors Worshiping with us for New Jeruselum Church in Pakistan.This Church is Self Support Church. Would you like to work with us or tell us if you can you do for us.

  118. lawrence law Says:

    Having attended New Creation Church since 1996, listening to pastor prince for this many years, the foundations were laid for below

    1. we are saved by grace thru faith,
    2. non of our righteousness but Jesus perfect redeeming work and
    3. motivation to read the original language in Greek or Hebre

    But a diet of JPM alone is not sufficient for no one source has the whole message of God that we require for a victorious …..I did not say trouble free….Christian life.

    I have found the following preachers and teachers to provide insightful revelations to the areas of God’s will for your Christian walk and perseverance.

    1. Joyce Meyer ministries
    2. Chuck swindoll sermons on 1st and 2nd peter
    3. Book by blackaby …’Experiencing God;knowing and doing the will of God’s

    By no means the above sources are perfect but it brings a whole side of God that JPM diet delivers poorly.

    Let us humble ourselves under the mighty hand of god that he may exalt u up in due time, casting all your cares on him for he cares for u.

    Lawrence

  119. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Anyone who claims to be able to produce a complete diet is a liar. No one is that perfect.

  120. Stephanie Says:

    Was curiously to see how people search my blog and saw yours and this post! I am amazing how one can go under the ministry of Revealing Jesus by NCC and not touch by it!

    I was facing a 3 yrs of spiritual attacks that lead me to seek for a God that could help me. Jesus delivered me in 3 months! As I listened and are so desperate for an answer, I drink all that Pastor Prince and the other pastors whom preaches in New Creation each week. I even swallow 4-5 sermons per day in the early days! I have the revelation of Jesus so much that Lord came and still is with me daily!

    Christianity is about a relationship with Jesus and Abba Father through Holy Spirit in us. Lord led me to finish reading the bible and now meditating His Words. I have meditated the Psalms and Proverbs done the new testament and now in the process of finishing meditating the prophets!

    With daily trusting Jesus and tithe whenever I am blessed with 1st fruits, Lord lead me in prosperous life. I am a divorced woman with no income as still not working. Daily just spend time meditating and talking to the Lord.

    When I was running out of money, as I am looking at what I had and feeling poor. But then I realised in Christ, because of His Finished Work, I am Rich! I confess this to Lord!

    After I believe I am rich, Lord led me to an area I had invested and told me to withdraw that money. With my usual monthly expenditure, I thought that amount would be used up in 2 years. Now I am divorced for 2 yrs and in the 8th months! Lord did miracle in my account that no matter how I spent.

    In these 2 yrs 8mths, I had brought my girl to HK, bought a notebook, bought a North Face windbreaker set that costed more than $500 for my mum. Yet till today, from the original amt to now, even thought I did order my Mcdonald, Pizza hut, Sarpino pizza etc, I am just down by $7000!!! Lord is still in the 5 loaves 2 fish miracle!!!

    Recently, I even bought a bicycle for my girl’s classmate birthday that cost me around $180. I still have abundance leftover! Compared to the one who complained NCC don’t want to help you, ex did ask me to approach church too!!! But I believe in my Provider and look to Him and Him alone. Am I left to suffer in hunger even when ex tried to cut my allowance to zero, Lord got Govt to worry about divorce women not getting their allowance and ex pay me again 3 months later at 1/3 the amount of $500 for his daughter only!!!

    But I still have prenty. It’s who you choose to believe! I choose to believe that He, Jesus, will provide me and He did! All from the good news I heard and still hearing in New Creation Church, Singapore!!!

  121. omar Says:

    MATTHEW 7-“13&14&15 Enter ye in at the strait gate”for wide is the gate,and broad is the way,That leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, Which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS,WHICH COME TO YOU IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING,BUT INWARDLY THEY ARE RAVENING WOLVES. v22-24 Many will say to me in that day,LORD LORD have we not prophesied in thy name?and in thy name cast out devils?and in thy name done many wonderful works?and then will i profess unto them,I never knew you:depart from me;ye that work iniquity,

  122. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    You must be a false prophet.

  123. Moneybags Says:

    You sir are a joke…. The stupid tithe HAHAHAHAHA

  124. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Glad you like it.

  125. chipo1988 Says:

    Yeap: I’ll be praying for you.

    The theology you espose is messed up. I have no hesitation in saying that and I also make no apologies for it. It’s as far away from the true gospel as could be. I say this as a someone concerned for your spiritual welfare as well as someone who loves the truth of God’s Word.

    Let me break something to you bro…life and living are ultimately not about you, neither are they about me…they about Christ Jesus, serving him and giving him the glory and honour that he deserves! Check Colossians 1:15-23. He’s the Creator and Sustainer, the centre of all creation. HE’S THE BIG DEAL. NOT ME, NOT YOU, NOT ANYONE ELSE. You need to get over yourself and humbly see that Christ came to deal with your sinful heart in the same way that he came to deal with mine.

    How would you explain persecution of Christians in places like Northern Nigeria, the Middle East and other places? Did they just get unlucky? There is a cost to following Jesus. In many places it actually involves losing one’s life for proclaiming Christ as Lord and Saviour. Now, ofcourse not all Christians will be killed because they are Christians but the Bible is clear in saying that THERE IS a cost to following Jesus.

    I’d MUCH RATHER experience intimacy and closeness with my precious Jesus through suffering than spiritual detachment on account of my material wealth.

    Bro, ditch this prosperity nonsense before it’s too late. It’s not of the Bible and it’s leading many people to hell.

    In love.

  126. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Let me help you to get to heaven by taking away all your money.

  127. chipo1988 Says:

    What do you mean?

    I know a better way of getting to heaven – trusting in the COMPLETE work of Jesus dying on the cross to win you and I salvation.

  128. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    If prosperity can prevent you from going to heaven, I will be glad to help you taking away all your money.

  129. chipo1988 Says:

    What will happen to you then?

  130. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    My place in heaven is guaranteed by the finished works of Jesus Christ. I don’t need perversions.

  131. chipo1988 Says:

    But you will have my money.

    Surely that will send you to hell?

    — on the premise of your earlier statement “If prosperity can prevent you from going to heaven, I will be glad to help you taking away all your money.”

  132. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    That is only a scam theologians used to extort money from the gullible. True Christians believe salvation in Jesus alone, not in persuing poverty.

  133. chipo1988 Says:

    Let me ask you a simple question:

    What do you make of these verses from Acts chapter 5 (working on the premise that the Bible is God’s Word and therefore is accurate, true and relevant):

    Verses 40 and 41 (ESV Translation) —
    “And when they had called in the apostles, they beat them and charged them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. They left the presence of the council REJOICING THAT THEY WERE COUNTED WORTHY TO SUFFER DISHONOUR FOR THE NAME [OF CHRIST].”

    What do you make of these verses?

  134. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Same as the story of Jesus telling the rich young ruler to give away all his money. Hypocrite pastors like to quote them but none dare to obey.

  135. chipo1988 Says:

    You call it pursuing poverty but the fact of the matter is Jesus said there will be a cost to following him.
    If we are TRULY living as Christians, we will experience that naturally. There will be things that we’d want to do that we wouldn’t be able to do because we want to please our Lord and Saviour. And all that will be because this world is not our home. Heaven is where we belong! That’s where I will TRULY prosper Yeap.

    And you know why?

    Because I will be in sweet, perfect and happy union with Christ Jesus, my Lord and my Saviour. There, I will have all I would’ve ever needed: HIM! And so WHAT IF I experience abit of discomfort in this life? I’m just passing through this world. Heaven is where I’m headed!

  136. chipo1988 Says:

    Rather than focusing on “hypocrite pastors” Yeap, how do those verses relate to YOU?

    What do you take from them for your own life?

  137. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Hypocrite pastors like to quote the cost in order to extort money from believers. If you really believe in what you preach you should live it out. Sell eveything you have, give to the poor and follow Jesus. Don’t take any salary. If you end up experiencing discomfort like starvation and disease, you are just passing through this world.

    How many preachers dare to be unhypocrite?

  138. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I dare to tell the truth. The truth is I am not a pervert. I have no intention to enjoy poverty and sickness. God has given me a functional brain and I intend to use it.

  139. Peter Says:

    I am from NCC, but i do not agree to the secret of tithing. Pastor Prince did distort the truth about tithing and make it a secret to more blessings. We need to read the bible in its context. Anyway, the prosperity gospel originated from USA. It has been proven a scam and just that pple in SG does not know it.
    1. The book of Malachi is written to the Jews and how the Levi sacrificed blemish animals. We are gentiles and not Jews. The apostle never mentioned about tithing to the church.
    2. When Paul mentioned about giving, the context was to help out a group of very poor Christian, it was not about making ourselves rich. Please note that God will provide does not equate God will make you rich. God can do all things, and yes he can make us rich but subjected his will. James mentioned that does not God make the poor full of faith?
    3. Sowing of seeds refers to the words of God. This truth is rather layman because the people stated it so clearly. The 30, 60 and 100 folds mean to understand more of God’s words according to the context. It is not about investment.

    Sorry to say this, “Then I proceeded to try out the “Benefits Of Tithing”. It was another surprise. I realize that tithing is an institution God uses to prosper me” Tithing is not 10%, it is 28%. There are 3 tithes altogether. The book of Malachi together with the book of Deutronomy is saying that not paying any of the 3 tithes equate to robber of God. Christian is about giving, giving by the purpose of your heart, giving to help needy pple. Not to feed the prosperity Gospel.

  140. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    The “prosperity gospel” never existed. It is a term used by the heretics to persecute the true gospel.

  141. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    If you have really been to NCC, you should have known that they never preached “prosperity gospel”. Only the gospel.

  142. Coleen Kilroy Says:

    Yeap Chee Seng: You are the first real person I have found that knows about New Creation Church. I have recently discovered Pastor Prince on television and found that God sent NCC’s message to me to remove the veil so that I may know the love of Jesus. It is the most amazing feeling! Please may I ask you- do you know if there are churches in the United States that are associated with NCC? Thank you for your writings and God bless you!- Coleen Kilroy in Deltona, Florida USA

  143. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Try Lakewood Church.

  144. Grace Lee Says:

    No one has ever seen God, but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.Only one thing is needful…..is to LOVE each other.

  145. Ron Says:

    If we are kind and companssionate towards each other, the world is a much better place to live in. Religion is a spiritual path to improve ourselves as a human being and helping the unfortunate.

  146. Robert Huang Says:

    Laugh through your cynical statement(s) toward those hypocrites. I mean, I enjoy reading this. To my belief, you’ve received Jesus as your Savior and Lord most importantly. I can’t tell how rich you are, but I can sense you’re very proud of it. You said that Christianity was one of the tools. What are the rest of the tools? How do you apply Christianity as a tool? Like license-to-sin kind of tool? I concur with your statement(s) on religion(s). They all are abusive and killing more people than starvation itself, and one of them is Christianity (Religion). As I believe, Jesus never built a religion. It was the non-believers who called the disciples as “Christians” in the Book of Acts 11:26. They were originally identified as the people of the Way (Acts 9:2). Indeed there are many practical systems in the Holy Bible which many use as gateways to prosperity. But everything described is summed up in one Name only – that is Jesus Christ. One of them is the multi-level approach for example, which proves to be successful in a way.The world is actually copying God but they do not know or just deny that. I understand your no-to-missions saying. It’s a sad thing, but it’s the choice you’ve made. Yet, He’s still working in you (whether you realize about it or not). So sorry I don’t read your articles, but I would love to encourage you to see evangelical missions from another perspective – which is not about earning new religious converts as many as possible and draining your money all-out, but a way to allow Jesus Christ to present Him through you and your prosperity so that they may see (or taste) truly not only that God is good but also just. We are indeed His representatives. In the end, when He comes, or worse before that (When we pass away first), we bring nothing with us. So yes, it’s a nice thing to be super rich or just rich, but it isn’t everything. Jesus is our Everything (“In Him, all consist.”) and He loves us no matter how badly we try to pervert His Word many a time. Prosperity without Jesus is just prosperity (of the world), but prosperity in Jesus is LIFE (The Hebrew word is היה (HAYAH)). Of course I’m not saying you’ll be in hell as claimed by many. Hahaha. Be blessed!

  147. Mr2Timothy4v2 Says:

    Unfortunately Pastor Joseph Prince is a false LYING teacher who REWRITES THE BIBLE you can watch my video http://youtu.be/BelcOK27sx0.

    Also Jesus means Hail Zeus. J-Zeus is a name invented to worship the roman-greek god instead of accepting that Yeshua is the Jewish Son of God and the Lord of the Sabbath not the pope of SUNday. Since salvation originates from the Jews -John 4:22
    Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
    You cannot
    seperate yourself from the Jewish Messiah and his Torah and make your own law and New covenant with the Catholic church who New Creation church is under. They are under the National Council of Churches of singapore which is under the world council of Churches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Creation_Church)

    WCC=BABYLON
    http://www.inplainsite.org/html/world_council_of_churches.html#Heathenism

    [KJV] I Timothy 6:10
    For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

    [KJV] I Timothy 6:9
    But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

    TITHING IS A CARNAL LAW THAT WAS NOT ABOUT MONEY BUT FOR KEEPING THE LEVITES
    IN SERVICE> THERE ARE NO MORE LEVITES AND IF YOU TITHE YOU MUST TAKE A BASKET OF FRUIT TO THE CHURCH AS WELL AND IT IS MORE THAN 10% OF YOUR INCREASE AND NOT OF DEBT.

    YOU DO NOT GIVE TO GET RICH FOR THEN YOU HAVE RECEIVED YOUR EARTHLY REWARD AND THERE WILL BE NO REWARD IN HEAVEN.

  148. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I look forward to my earthly rewards.

  149. Stephen Says:

    Hi Chee Seng, I am a regular visitor to NCC. Your answers to your readers are funny…but not a good testimony and it turned away believers. I think the web is not a good way to convince others because religion is such a personal thing.

  150. PCJ Says:

    John 2:13

    13The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14In the temple he found people selling cattle, sheep, and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. 15Making a whip of cords, he drove all of them out of the temple, both the sheep and the cattle. He also poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16He told those who were selling the doves, “Take these things out of here! Stop making my Father’s house a marketplace!

    Yet Prince clams GOD told him to build a mall to house his church? Yeah… uh huh.

  151. Sam Says:

    Why must it boil down to a simplistic choice between (a) using faith to get wealthy or else (b) worship poverty like a life-loathing idiot? Both types smack way off tangent to me. And I’m a baldie, so I must be wise.

  152. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Because life is meant to be simple.

  153. fwy Says:

    I have a friend who goes to New Creation too. She told me it is not necessary to make a donation to the church. I used to visit the Novena Church. Everything was okay at first until they start asking for S$40 million to renovate their church. This sum of money is enough to renovate a 5 star hotel. What were they thinking? I stop going to this church or any other churches from then on.

  154. Servant Says:

    The $45 million sum that Novena Church is trying to raise is not just a small renovation; it is to rebuild and expand the existing church building. This is very necessary because if you go there on Saturdays for the Novena service, it is obvious that the current building is way too small (and believe it or not, the building now has no aircon). Have you tried checking how much it cost to have buildings of similar size in Singapore nowadays? No one is forced to donate at any Catholic services, it is entirely up to you whether you want to give $1 or $100. The Catholic Church will never say that giving more $$ means you’re ‘more blessed’.

  155. tryan Says:

    have never came across a church that put pressure on ppl to give money to church giving is away base on how much you are willing to give. New creation tell only the positive side of the message in the bible and not the numerous warning in it. I been there a few time and think people should know been a Christian is about servant hood and telling others the good news of Christ which is what our Lord and savior Jesus told us to do. Faith without work is dead. work without Faith is also dead. Faith comes first it is only with Faith that our works can glorify God.

  156. Movers Singapore Says:

    What’s Taking place i am new to this, I stumbled upon this I’ve found It positively helpful and it has helped me out loads.
    I am hoping to give a contribution & assist different customers like its aided me.

    Good job.

  157. Eloise Huisan Van Vuuren Says:

    Mr Yeap Chee Seng, thank you for being so honest in sharing all your thoughts and feelings with all of us!!! I enjoyed reading about your experience with New Creation Church and churches as a whole! I have learned so much from what you have shared. I will share my experience in my walk with The Lord Jesus in my own blog: Eloise Huisan Van Vuuren blog which I will create later today having been inspired by your blog!

  158. Isaac Says:

    Hi everyone. I came across this blog as I was searching for “new creation church bible study”. It seems that NCC has no bible study classes for very long. How odd. Anyway, a big thanks to brother Yeap for sharing though his views may not be entirely right;so do everyone else’s, and probably mine. Peace be to everyone. An interesting phenomenon that I have observed for years is that people who tithe with a willing heart are more generous. I saw lots of quotations above warning about prosperity and money but I wonder if those people actually read what they quote. It is not money per se but the love of money. If prosperity is really that bad then God did Solomon a great disservice. But no, He gave Solomon wisdom (riches and honor) and more importantly, largeness of heart, so that he can be generous and be a blessing to Israel. Just imagine how you can bless others if you are always living from hand to mouth. The Lord is not against riches but the love of riches. Think about it.

    Steven Weinberg once said: “For good people to do evil things, that takes religion”. He is only half right. I believe that for evil people to do good, that takes Christ and His love.

  159. Beresi Says:

    Thanx to Joseph Prince Ministries, have been blessed by watching his video clips on TBN. I have been blessed that I have just authored a book (more info, go on facebook:….DEO Beresi : Author of “Be Established By The Finished Work”.)
    I would love to have more of Videos but they r so scarce in my country. I live in Uganda (East Africa) and am a preacher of Grace. God bless u Joseph Prince. My dream is one day to attend your church…Everything is possible

  160. John Says:

    Matt 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

  161. John Says:

    1 Timothy 6:9-10
    But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

    2 Timothy 4:3-4
    For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

  162. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    John, you better repent from your lawlessness.

  163. Cheryl Meril Says:

    Just wanted to say fear God and remember Jesus said the path to heaven is very narrow. Hell is a real place where many people who view themselves as acceptable and good human beings and humanitarians with great achievements the likes of Barbra Streisand are headed.

    Be careful that you’re not seduced by deceiving spirits, the Bible speaks of many falling away from the faith willingly giving into such spirits. Rethink your attitude that hell is not an option, going there is not a threat ,but a promise in God’s Word for those who don’t accept Jesus and follow Him there. Few will enter so don’t get too cocky that you think you’re a shoe in for heaven, many famous Christians are going to hell believing they’re headed for heaven.

    “These false teachers are bold and arrogant. They aren’t afraid to insult the ⌊Lord’s⌋ glory. 11 Angels, who have more strength and power than these teachers, don’t bring an insulting judgment against them from the Lord. 12 These false teachers insult what they don’t understand. They are like animals, which are creatures of instinct that are born to be caught and killed. So they will be destroyed like animals 13 and lose what their wrongdoing earned them. Peter 2:10-13

  164. Servant Says:

    How do you know that Barbra Streisand and ‘many famous Christians’ are bound for hell? Who or what gives you the authority to judge them this way? At least ‘good human beings and humanitarians with great achievements’ can take comfort from the words of our Lord himself (Matthew 25:31-46):

    “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations* will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous* will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’

    Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

  165. John Rivers Says:

    New Creation is becoming more and more like a cult. Its impossible to fellowship with the members who won’t eat anything unless its come from Joseph Prince’s hand. This is a very dangerous place to be in. It means people lose their personality, their individualism, their intellect and ultimately their spirits will be crushed. I know this cause I’ve been through this nonsense before.

  166. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I am glad I am not there anymore.

  167. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Are you that false teacher, Cheryl? Which false teacher have identified themselves as false teachers? The only way “false teachers” is used is for preachers to accuse their rivals.

  168. John M Says:

    One of Joseph Prince’s followers was at my work place. People at work talk negatively about his inability to admit when he is wrong about something. He does not believe in confessing his wrongdoings (especially to others) because he is already righteous, a son of God and blessed. I’ve NEVER seen him apologise sincerely to anyone for harm done.
    Surely there should be a balance here somewhere? I find it hard to be around the guy myself.

    He does not seem to be the only one since I’ve been introduced to more people from New Creation Church and many of them seem to have the same problem. I’ve noticed these folk have a good confidence in the teaching of God’s love for them but I can’t helping feeling that they believe good deeds done for others and christian suffering is part of legalism and something to be avoided.

    In conclusion I am not impressed.

    Show me the evidence – James 3:13

  169. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    My wife also shared some similar examples. A good message can turn bad if pushed to the extreme.

  170. Only Seeking The Trusth (Ex-NCC Member) Says:

    Ex-NCC attendee

    Some confessions from an ex-NCC goer (which may offend those who go to church only if it comes from Joseph Prince’s hand :

    1. I went to NCC to learn how to get materially rich through Christ.
    – On weekends, I attended NCC for the sole purpose of getting richer, truth be told. I went to NCC diligently and was seemingly refreshed by Joseph Prince’s feel good sermons.
    – I got so excited about going to service to hear Prince’s sermons every weekend and it got to a point when I actually felt disappointed if another pastor went up on stage to speak because Prince wasn’t in Singapore (at least I’m one of the few NCC goers who openly admits this for the benefit of my fellow Christian friend here).

    2. Studying and reading the Bible (not listening to Prince’s CDs) eventually showed me the truth
    – I give credit to Joseph Prince for making me interested in reading the New Testament.
    – During weekdays, I delved straight into the bible (the source of all Truth), instead of listening to Joseph Prince’s CDs,
    – However, the bible eventually revealed to me that knowing Christ to get rich was just downright wrong because it says in 2 Corinthians 13:5 ” Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves.”
    – Moreover, t says in Matthew 6:24 that “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”
    – Finally, Jesus himself said on the sermon on the Mount in Luke 12:33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”
    – How could I, in good conscience, believe for one moment that Jesus was preaching on material gain here on earth?

    3. One particular common misconceptions drilled repeatedly into layman Christians who attend NCC without reading the bible. You can’t be a blessing onto others unless you are wealthy and healthy. << NCC loves this phrase
    – Self serving or Genuinely wanting to help others? Take a moment to truly "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves." (2 Corinthians 13:5). I wonder what the true motive of being wealthy and healthy is. It sounds more self serving than being a servant to others.
    – You can be poor and sick (in a position of weakness) and still be used by God to be a blessing onto others.
    – It states clearly in 2 Corinthians 12:9 that God's “grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong." Wouldn't then that be the true test of faith?
    – Still don't understand how anyone who is poor / sick / in weakness can be used by God to bless? Let these 3 videos speak for themselves :-
    – Sick yet singing praises to the Most High (an example and blessing to healthy Christians) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxWDiHQ5ZJ0
    – Poor yet singing praises to the Most High (an example and blessing to discontented Christians) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDmibnRyhj4
    – UN-HEALED man without Limbs yet serves Christ : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBSKjOfFHwI
    – NCC friends I show these 3 videos to usually change the subject or keep silent when I question NCC's creed of how God wants us all healthy and wealthy; and, that we can only be a blessing onto others only if we are in such a position of strength. How wrong!

    4. Name it and Claim it. NCC preaches on this heavily, especially in Prince's book "Destined to Reign"
    – If you're poor, say you have money! Name it and Claim it in Jesus Name!!
    – Why doesn't NCC ever preach on contentment? Is this anywhere in "Destined to Reign"??
    – 1 Timothy 6:6-11 "But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."
    – Philippians 4:12 "I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want."
    – Godliness with Contentment translates to great gain and happiness – that, my friends, is to truly reign in life and not to be a slave to what the pagans or lukewarm Christians seek – health and wealth.

    5. NCC tends to preach material blessings here on earth, more so than in Heaven.
    – How to tell if a Christian or Pastor (in general) is walking in the faith or walking in the flesh?
    – Christians / Pastors who tend to put greater emphasis on material things are of the world (when we should not be of this world)
    – Clearly, those who put more emphasis on material possessions on earth are living in the flesh, and not of the spirit
    – For it clearly says in scripture 1 John 2:15-17 "Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world–the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does–comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever."

    Christians who are serious about their walk with Christ must realize that while we all can pray for provision and health, it takes a certain level of christian maturity to realize that sometimes, there are some things that are better than to be physically healed or being wealthy in this short time we have on earth (compared to the weight of eternity in paradise), and that is knowing that His sufficient grace is made perfect in our weaknesses. Praise be His name.

    And for those lukewarm Christians out there who think they can get by just by going to church every week without establishing that daily walk and relationship with Christ, please dear brothers and sisters, think about this from the NEW Testament which is so seldom preached in prosperity churches like NCC :

    a) Without Daily Relationship With Christ, it will be difficult to enter Heaven :
    – Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to Me in that Day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name, and in Thy name have cast out devils, and in Thy name done many wonderful works?’ 23 And then will I profess unto them, ‘I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity.’
    – These Christians who walked through the wide gate thought they were 'saved' by His grace and yet didn't make it through the narrow gate into Heaven
    – To put it simply, you may be a good person. But if you were homeless and walked straight up to the house belonging to the richest man on the block to live with him, he's not going to let you in because he does not know you.
    – Likewise, for the Kingdom of Heaven. You may think you believe in the savior and are a good person, but on the day of the resurrection, many Christians will be in shock to realize that Jesus would tell them "I never knew you" because you never did have that relationship with the Father. Ponder on this dear brothers and sisters.

    b) Listening to false teaching leads to false beliefs and false actions :
    – 2 Timonthy 4:-4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts (of the eyes and flesh and the pride of life – 1 John 2:16) shall they heap to themselves teachers (prosperity teachers included), having itching ears (to hear feel good sermons); They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
    – What is the consequence of not enduring sound doctrine? Hell …. Matthew 7:13-14 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it" Remember people, on the day of resurrection, many Christians who thought all they had to do was to believe in Christ while being lukewarm here on earth would suffice only to end up shocked to hear from our Lord Jesus "Depart from me, I never knew you". Ponder over this, my friends.

    c) And for those who don't read the bible, Hell is real.
    – Check out The Rich Man and Lazarus … a New Testament story spoken by Jesus himself in Luke 16:19-31
    – The Rich Man was fine by earthly standards. Respected in his community, wealthy, loved his brothers, enjoyed life, did no harm to others but neither did he help the less fortunate
    – He went straight to Hell
    – Whats Hell like according to Luke 16:19-31 ? Its eternal, hot, fiery with endless thirst and agony

  171. Paul Says:

    Hi Yeap Chee Seng…i currently attend NCC and i enjoy Pastor Prince’s messages on the love of God and grace. However, his theology is sometimes unbalanced, because he carefully avoids mentioning punishment for sin, if we choose to not believe in Christ, after we become Christians. He carefully avoids ever mentioning that we can become unbelievers once again, if we fail to continue to walk in the truth and in the light, “as He is in the light.” But this is what every preacher does; they all are fallible and make mistakes. So, i take away what i can — and it has been a great deal — from Prince’s messages. I have been greatly enlightened in my understanding of what Jesus actually did for me; and for this i am very grateful. Now that i have said this, sadly i must warn you, that from what you have shared on your blog over these past four years, leaves me thinking that you just don’t believe in Christ, not do you even believe in God or the need to repent and be saved from your evil nature. Christianity is not a tool. Jesus is also not a ‘tool’ for us to use–and abuse–to get what we desire (in particular, to fulfill our lusts). Faith in Christ is a gift that is NOT bestowed or presented to all peoples, otherwise Heaven would be full. Instead, faith in Christ is a gift that is given carefully by God to those He trusts to be “good stewards,” with the hope or desire that we Christians will grow in grace and trust Christ to become like Him; not rich. You are so misled in what you believe, which is the doctrine of devils sold by the Synagogue of Satan. I pray for you, as i live in Singapore with my Singaporean wife, that you will receive from God the riches of eternal life, wisdom, and humility, sufficient to lead you perfectly out of your dark time, and into His glorious presence, and that in 2014!!

  172. Mel Sal Says:

    Dear Yeap Chee Seng,

    I would like to thank you for making this blog. I came here a few weeks ago and was glad to see that this blog is not controlled and that you let people more or less post what they want to say. Believe it or not, even if some spiritually mature people don’t agree with your views, they probably found this more interesting than going to a blog that only has positive things to say. I certainly did!

    I think its most important to try to live your life as a good person, to be honest and to follow the commandments of God as you progressively understand them and if you don’t know the commandments, to at least believe and follow everything you know to be good/noble and right for yourself and especially others. Along the way, things can happen to people to make people lose concern for their fellow man or their neighbour.

    It is my opinion that the word “Righteousness” in the bible is often misunderstood. Some render that word as “Justice” and not righteousness e.g. I Tell You That Unless Your Justice Abound more than that of the teachers of the law and Pharisees…You Shall Not Enter Into the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt 5:20)

    Matthew 1:19 – Joseph was a man who always DID what was right… (which meant he was righteous for doing what was right) .. just like Paul’s explanation about Abraham being justified for what he did in the book of James.

    Doing right is not really about church attendance, tithing, forcing yourself to memorise/exegete the bible but being a light to others in their darkness, doing good where no good exists, giving hope to the hopeless and loving those who have grown up on hate for food.

    Doing what is right is not about believing in the falling rain pouring upon you and giving to others out of prosperity and abundance which does not really require grace. No.., because anyone can do that!! In fact the rain falls on the righteous and unrighteous alike. So, receiving is not necessarily a sign of being righteous because the sun shines on evil people too.

    Luke 21:1-4
    As Jesus looked up, he saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. “Truly I tell you,” he said, “this poor widow has put in more than all the others. All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”

  173. Only Seeking The Trusth (Ex-NCC Member) Says:

    My point exactly…

    >> Doing what is right is not about believing in the falling rain pouring upon you and giving to others out of prosperity and abundance which does not really require grace. Luke 21:1-4 As Jesus looked up, he saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. “Truly I tell you,” he said, “this poor widow has put in more than all the others. All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”

    As an ex-NCC attendee and current NCC friends I spoke to always love to say you have to be healthy and wealthy yourself in order to be a blessing onto others. I have to gently disagree. You mentioned a fine example : the poor widow who donated two of her coins.

    Even the pagans bless others out of their own wealth (how is that any different from NCC members who believe they need to be rich and healthy in order to bless others?). But only the pure of heart, like the widow, puts in all they have to live on.

  174. Henry Says:

    Receiving blessing in this life is not a necessarily a sign of grace or being righteous. In fact, it could be a sign that you are being rewarded with temporal blessing while you miss out on the eternal. We are commanded to store up treasures in heaven my brothers and sisters.

    “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

    “But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort Luke 6:24

  175. Servant Says:

    In addition to the story about the rich man and Lazarus shown above, I thought our Lord has made it clear how we should approach money:

    Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and decay destroy, and thieves break in and steal. But store up treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor decay destroys, nor thieves break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there also will your heart be. (Matthew Chapter 6:19-21)

    No one can serve two masters. He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. (Matthew Chapter 6:24)

    Now someone approached him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?” He answered him, “Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He asked him, “Which ones?” And Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother’; and ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself.’” The young man said to him, “All of these I have observed. What do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to [the] poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this statement, he went away sad, for he had many possessions. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Amen, I say to you, it will be hard for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God. (Matthew Chapter 19:16-24)

  176. Paul Says:

    Well said, brother. It is not that God desires any of His children to be perpetually poor. For example, we are instructed by Paul that a man who doesn’t provide for his wife and family is a reprobate. Someone who is desperately poor cannot afford to feed himself, never mind his wife or any children. However, to say God desires all believers to be wealthy and rich in material things AT ALL TIMES is an evil and wicked distortion of the truth that is a dammnable lie. I won’t provide texts because they are easy to find and numerous; but suffice it to say that, in my experience and according to Jesus’ teachings, to seek to be rich, to live like a King, to be so wealthy that you never need to think about your daily needs anymore, i believe is a wrong approach to learning from God and from the Holy Spirit. How can a rich man, who is surrounded by his riches, not be tempted to trust in them, and fall away from grace? How can a man whose mind is SET on becoming rich and wealthy learn to be humble and seek the things of God and His Kingdom ALWAYS? i agree with Yeap in that there is nothing wrong with being wealthy per se, for a Christian. But in my experience, you can not serve two masters. For someone who is not born wealthy, or who has not come into wealth before he or she became a believer, i believe that IF IT is the perfect will of God, he or she will become wealthy IF his or her HEART and MIND are set on GOD and His things (His Kingdom) always, above all else; and that, ONLY if it is God’s perfect will. It is all right to wish to have more to give to others; that is commendable. But, HOW MUCH more is adequate? One million dollars (not easy to obtain)? Ten million dollars? Our hearts are DESPERATELY WICKED as Psalmist says: it is the work of death to seek material riches OUTSIDE of the perfect will of God. If the writer is SO desirous to be a blessing, how faithful is he in the small things? Mr. Seng, how much are you doing for the Lord now? how many poor people are you helping now, if you don’t even give óne cent’ to the church?

  177. Mr2Timothy4V2 Says:

    Yes Joseph Prince is a cult leader of ecumenism. His preaching does not even makes sense but people believe it
    watch

  178. Mr2Timothy4V2 Says:

    Joseph Prince teaches people to worship pagan gods just as the pope does-he is an agent of the catholic church since his church is under WCC. WCC’s aim is to bring all religions under one false god -the pope -BABYLON and idolatry has to be included. Joseph Prince is priming the ignorant for this idolatry.

    Watch:

    and

    Joseph Prince is a liar since he serves the father of lies -Satan

    watch

  179. Mr2Timothy4V2 Says:

    Joseph Prince is a liar since he serves the father of lies -Satan.

    watch

  180. Mr2Timothy4V2 Says:

    Simply answer my Quiz and you will know who you follow- either Joseph Prince or YHWH and his word

    QUIZ
    Which of the following statements is true

    A)Believers who try to keep the commandments cannot inherit the blessings of God
    B)Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    C)A & B
    D)None of the above

    I await your answers……..

  181. pjac00 Says:

    Mr2Timothy4V2,

    I must give credit to Joseph Prince for making me interested to read the New Testament.

    But I give greater credit to Christ for turning me away from falsehood and towards the Truth.

    My honest opinion – Joseph Prince’s teaching is best suited for :-
    a) atheists sitting on the fence
    b) baby Christians who only recently became Christians
    c) baby Christians who remain self-centered and who do not want to grow into mature Christians (to be servants / slaves of Christ)
    d) Christians / Catholics who were yoked under the heavy burden of legalism

    Joseph Prince swings to the other extreme (from legalism) and he condemns sin, no doubt.

    But what doesn’t sit well with me is his emphasis on physical healing and material health here on earth. No where do I hear about “treasures in heaven”, “Godliness with contentment is great gain”, “I have learned to be content with whatever I have. I know what it is to have little, and I know what it is to have plenty.” No. He believes in having our best life NOW, here on earth. It is a teaching that emphasizes the desires of the flesh, not of the spirit.

    His book “Destined to Reign” is all about earthly gain. Nothing about “treasures in heaven”. It says in the bible to test the spirits and to see whether their works are of the flesh or of the spirit. “Destined to Reign” is all about earthly gain. Clearly, the book is a work of the flesh. Please correct me if I’m wrong, people.

  182. pjac00 Says:

    QUIZ
    Which of the following statements is true

    A)Believers who try to keep the commandments cannot inherit the blessings of God
    B)Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    C)A & B
    D)None of the above

    Answer : C? (Revelation 22:14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    A is not biblical… because it says “1 John 5:2-4 – By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

    A&B is like mixing cyanide / poison (A) with pure water (B). So that won’t cut it I suppose

  183. Servant Says:

    Mr2Timothy4V2

    When has the Pope ever asked people to worship himself rather than Jesus Christ?

  184. Servant Says:

    pjac00

    Just to clarify, Catholic Christians are certainly not asked to practise ‘legalism’. As the Bible and the historical Church have reaffirmed over the centuries since the time of Jesus Christ, we are all called to demonstrate our faith in Him through acts of charity and love to our neighbours – not just through empty words.

  185. pjac00 Says:

    Servant,
    Can you give me specific examples of what should be done through “acts of charity and love to our neighbours” ?

  186. Servant Says:

    pjac00

    Sharing our time and material resources with our neighbours, especially those who are suffering or struggling one way or another. Eg donating to the poor, keeping the lonely company, offering a hug and listening ear to the distressed – in short, doing concrete things that will make their lives better.

  187. pjac00 Says:

    Servant,

    I am curious. It says in the bible to give one tenth to the Lord.

    Scenario 1) Should the one tenth be fully given to the church, then any surplus goes directly to e.g. feeding the poor?
    Scenario 2) Or should the one tenth include a mixture of given some to the church and some going directly to e.g. feeding the poor?
    Scenario 3) Or can it be the full one tenth going directly to e.g. feeding the poor?

    I know there are no rules to this. Would be interested to know your opinion of this.

  188. John M Says:

    The bible teaches that we should not lie and steal. In the modern world, most underhand stealing is done in the form of sophisticated commercial crime. Christians ought to know that if they are working for a company, an organisation or even the government, it is their duty to protect their employer’s land, goods and intellectual property.
    For some reason it has become “OK” for christians to make an outward show of integrity by dressing well, staying healthy, not using foul language, being positive and saying the things that other christians want to hear. Nothing wrong with prospering. What is important is just “how you go about it”

    If someone has become prosperous through “ill gain” e.g. working for a company and then siphoning off business to themselves secretly, it is a terrible thing to say you are a christian, talk about the grace of God, prosperity and the like when your success was not based on integrity, hard work and sweat. I’m waiting to hear sermons from any church that dare do so about work integrity and ethics. In the business world, this will make a christian stand out as someone who is upright or should I say “righteous”

    If we are upright/righteous (men and women of justice) we will want to promote those who do well, who are honest, who do not steal and lie and who show that they are good servants of their master because it reflects what you believe and what kind of relationship you have with God.

    In my estimation, I’ve not found very many people in this world who actually use christian principles in the work place. The work place is where we spend most of our time and the place where christian witness is important. Another place that is important is in the home. If you want to know if someone is following Christ, then you need to look at how they treat their fellow man, their fellow workers (of every religion, culture and none) in the work place and their relatives. Its not what we announce publicly in church which defines us. Its not about standing up and showing you can speak in tongues, or give to the poor in public or your public display of faith. Its all about your secret relationship with God. If you are dishonest with God in secret, you will be dishonest with others most secretly too. God cannot be mocked. The fruit of a dishonest life starts to show when people get older. They lose their soul and become worthless and dried up. Christianity to me is not about living to be 100 in this world with perfect health and wealth but more about dying without fear. If you can go to your deathbed without regrets and without your conscience condemning you, then you have something very precious. You have riches in heaven.

  189. Servant Says:

    pjac00

    Tithing is indeed mentioned in the Bible, but if you look carefully, the obligation to tithe (or give one tenth) was binding only on the Jews. Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic law (Matt. 5:17), but this doesn’t mean we’re not obligated to support the Church. We are, but there is no longer a specific percentage required.

    The key to understanding how God wants us to give to the Church is found in 1 Corinthians 16:2, “On the first day of the week [Sunday], each of you should set aside whatever he can afford,” and in 2 Corinthians 9:5-8:

    “So I thought it necessary to encourage the brothers to go on ahead to you and arrange in advance for your promised gift [donation], so that in this way it might be ready as a bountiful gift and not as an exaction. Consider this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each must do as already determined without sadness or compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. Moreover, God is able to make every grace abundant for you, so that in all things, always having all you need, you may have an abundance for every good work.”

    In other words, God doesn’t demand a fixed amount of money from us; he wants us to give from the heart. If people are forced by their church to give a certain percent of their income, that’s extortion. If they give freely and cheerfully the amount they are able, that’s a gift.

  190. Stephen Says:

    Dear John M
    I am sorry to know that you have a Christian colleague who does not live the life a Christian should live in the marketplace. For myself, I had come across many exemplary workers who are helpful, dedicated and honest and am happy to know that many of them are Christians from different churches.

  191. Stephen Says:

    I agree with one Mr Paul who posted on Jan 2 that Yeap Chee Seng (probably) does not believe in God. Maybe this was obvious all along.

  192. grace F Says:

    For so many hundreds of people to get together to make this video, there must be a lot of people who disagree with whats going on in modern media type christianity.

  193. Paul Says:

    Very well said, John M! i have been a Christian for some time and, as you say, most of us spend our lives in the workplace. Before i reply to you i want to share that i do not believe the Lord died for His followers to be yoked to the service of money. i believe this current world is designed to control everyone through paper money (fiat money) and, in particular, those who wish to believe in God and to serve and love Him and their neighbor; but who have to pay for their food and clothing and accomodation like everyone else. Now, while i agree that being a Christian witness in the workplace starts with honesty and integrity before God, i am horrified that most Christians seem to feel that working and serving money, rather than depending on God and having a vocation (in that order), is the right way to live. For myself, i struggle every time i take on a new job (i have worked for 25 years) because i strongly believe that my time is being squandered to obtain fiat money to use to control my life. Most Christians will definitely say this is normal and the way to live; but i firmly disagree. i believe if enough Christians refused to serve Mammon and committed themselves to trust and serve God without looking for a job and without seeking money, that God will provide for them and make them strong. in fact, He will provide a means by which we can overthrow this God-less present world system dependent on credit and debt, and build a new system that will keep Christians (in particular) from taking the Mark of the Beast ‘because we have no choice.’ But, i cannot find in my 25 years as a Christian, anyone who also as a Christian agrees with me. Yes, maybe it is a huge challenge to resist the tyranny of the Judaic Pharisees who control the wealth of the world through fiat money and credit; but if we do nothing then the Protocols will be fulfilled and we will all be consumed by those who control the weapons and the money. I struggle to accept that a Christian witness can be useful and effectual at work to save others; for my 25 years of working life as a Christian, i meet few other believers and if so, they are secret ones. The workplace today is controlled by despots who are controlled by the love of money and the power that money and credit finance brings. A Christian cannot easily establish a Bible Study at work, because most Managers are athiests, bisexual, gay or lovers of money and power; how do you appeal to Caesar, who will kill your bretheren rather than help you? so, for me, at least in my case, i firmly believe that my Christian witness is more useful outside the workplace, in the highways and byways (not inside church walls only) and that is where i will serve the Lord because i believe my ‘best life’ is being fruitful for the Lord; but struggling in a workplace where everyone is a slave of money (don’t argue with me on this: would you still go to work if they did not give you money?) because we have bills to pay, is TOO MUCH to ask, if you ALSO want every believer to be a strong witness for Christ and God. To me, what you are saying is noble and good; but because the workplace is controlled by MONEY, you are missing the point. Christians are indeed called TO WORK but, in this present system and age, MONEY has become the god of everyone and is seen as a SOLUTION in and of itself — when in fact, it is nothing and less than nothing in the sight of God. There is a better way but unless the MAJORITY of Christians seek that better way, they will all be compromised in thei faith and walk and accomplish nothing and worse, they will never actually achieve what God wants for them. I think this applies to MOST believers, not all but MOST. But to not seek money, this seems almost distasteful to most believers i speak to.

  194. Ahiati kojo Winfred Says:

    Dear sir,
    My name is Rev.Ahiati kojo winfred from Ghana west Africa.
    I am a pastor in the Royal praise chaple here in Ashaiman Ghana west africa.I and my church have been going through difficult time for years now because of financial problems.
    We lack so many things in the church most especially musical instruments,because of the this there is life in the church even though I try to preach the word with all my soul and spirit but there is no growth.
    sir I am begging u in the name of God to help the church of God which I am over seeing,please help me with musical instrument,drums set,base and lead guitars,combos,microphones,sound mixers,speakers,stage monitors.
    Please help me to do the work of God.
    thank you and may God richly bless u.
    These we my contacts:
    e-mail cojowinfred@gmail.com
    phones +233243125569, +233232466980, +233265237484.
    facebook ahiati.winfred@facebook.com.
    thank you.
    Ahiati Winfred.

  195. pjac00 Says:

    Joseph Prince’s teachings are mostly geared towards earthly gain, which has its place in Christian Evangelism. However, his teachings lack any emphasis on Treasures in Heaven.

    In essence, Joseph Prince’s teaching will be good for :
    a) The new believer
    b) The born again Christian
    c) The Christian who was yoked by the heavy burden of legalism
    d) Christians who remain Baby Christians who do not mature in the Word (Focus only on SELF and not Others)
    e) Earthly / Carnal Christians (those focused on Earthly Treasures as opposed to Treasures in Heaven)

    His teaching is very weak in the areas of :
    a) Contentment (e.g. 1 Timothy 6:6-7, Philippians 4:11-12)
    b) Being a Slave to Christ and to Serve Others (1 Corinthians 7:22, Matthew 23:11)
    c) Rejoicing in Sanctified Affliction (Romans 5:3-5, 1 Pet. 1:6-7)
    d) Building Treasures in Heaven instead of on Earth (Matthew 6:20)
    e) Giving Alms to the Poor ( Luke 12:33, Luke 16:19-31)

    Joseph Prince’s church, like most mega-churches, emphasize mostly on earthly treasures and focus on SELF (very clear in Prince’s new book “Destined to Reign”), which, as I mentioned, has its place in bringing new believers into the fold of Christian brotherhood – though I’m not sure if it’s right to bring in new believers based on promises of earthly gain.

    However, little is mentioned on Treasures in Heaven, carrying your cross and being SELFLESS towards others. The reason is obvious. MOST Christians prefer hearing how they stand to benefit for THEMSELVES, rather than to serve and help others (PS : That’s why Prosperity churches are usually MEGA Churches, because MOST people who don’t really care to read the bible are only interested in themselves). Moreover, the bible clearly says in 2 Timothy 4:3 “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires (desires of the eyes, flesh and the pride of life – 1 John 2:16), they will gather around them a great number of teachers (e.g. Prosperity Teachers) to say what their itching ears want to hear.”

    However, if one wants to mature as a true Christian, Joseph Prince’s teachings may not be helpful for mature Christian growth because little is mentioned on Treasures in Heaven, carrying your cross and being SELFLESS towards others and serving them (based on the 2nd greatest commandment to love one another – John 13:34-35)

  196. Paul Says:

    I suspect Mr Yeap the writer of this blog will be very unsympathetic and even nasty towards you regarding your candid remarks about Joseph Prince. What you say has some truth but it is not the whole story by any means. I am a Christian of 25 years and have little to show for it in terms of my love for the Father. I am praying for the grace to change and learn to submit my will perfectly to His. I would comsider myself somewhat mature as a believer; but Pastor Prince’s theology has been a considerable blessing to myself personally in my spirit, as it has grown in understanding the height and depth of what Jesus is, who He is, how great His sacrificial love for me and the world not just on the Cross but because He gave His whole life up for my salvation and eternal peace with God; and other deeper things of the Spirit. Yes, it is true Joseph Prince preaches about blessings and his pastors and leaders also focus TOO MUCH on earthly, carnal desires, which have no place in a Christian church. So i am often perplexed as to HOW a man can be so lead of the Holy Spirit, and yet have such a wrong focus at times. I take the good and throw aside the bad. I will not listen to Mr. Prince for ever; but while i do, i rejoice exceedingly with the joy of the hope that is in Christ and the hope of greater glory which God truly desires to load onto His (mature) people. Mature Christians are those, simply, who walk in the Spirit. This is not easy to do because it requires killing the lusts of the flesh and the pride of life every moment of every day. It means sharing the sufferings of Christ, which in part means carrying the sorrow and grief of God at the wickedness and callousness of men, including many believers. But to walk in truth means i must love Joseph Prince and New Creation church and pray for them (though i cannot agree with the ‘tongues’ thing and i am not sure i ever will) that they and myself will DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER and NOT the will of man or our flesh.

  197. Paul Says:

    I also want to reply that if anyone reading this blog blathers on and attacks Joseph Prince and New Creation Church (either/or) and has NOT read any of Mr. Prince’s materials, listened to any of his messages, or attended services at NCC, you have NO RIGHT to ‘throw stones’ and your words will come to nothing. The Lord taught us to ‘judge justly’ and that means AFTER you have listened to at least a few sermons, read a few books, or attended at NCC for a few services. Anything else and i suspect that you are not a Christian and all you want to do is bring harm to the church, Pastor Prince, or yourself and/or others.

  198. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Anyone wants to give him money?

  199. Paul Says:

    Maybe you can sing him a song? He did not ASK for money, you ingrate!

  200. pjac00 Says:

    Paul,

    I was a New Creation Church member for several years and even bought several decks of CDs; and, all I did was listen to Joseph Prince CDs thinking what he said was enough to know Christ and the Bible.

    It was only after reading the SOURCE of all truth – the bible – many years later, that I realized that the teachings of the Holy Scriptures differ from Joseph Prince’s CD sermons, which, ironically, are more expensive than some bibles.

    (Food for thought : Anyone ever thought about why the prosperity gospel that emphasizes earthly gain sells better than the genuine Christ gospel of requiring to take up one’s cross? Yes, there’s a lot more money to be made with the prosperity + ‘your best life now’ gospel even though it clearly says one cannot serve two masters – Earthly Prosperity and Christ).

    While I can understand you’re upset that I raised those issues about Joseph Prince, the bible is clear that Jesus was harsh on false teaching. False teachers get away quite easily these days – especially in today’s age of tolerance where the false teacher’s innocent or not so innocent sheep (who are often those who don’t really study the bible but only listen to CDs and hear the sermons) jump to their pastors’ defense by saying “don’t judge” because “we are a ministry of love”. The “do not judge” and “we are a ministry of love” cards have been served over and over again by Prosperity Church goers not just in SG but also in the US. But for those who actually take time to study the bible, ask yourself if Jesus did go easy on false teaching. He most certainly did not! For it says in 2 Timothy 4:2 to “be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.”

    The point is, brother Paul, I point out Joseph Prince’s prosperity teaching not to put him down (or I would have made fun of Prince’s birth and real name for example). I point out what Joseph Prince consistently leaves out from his prosperity sermons dedicated towards Christ and Earthly Gain (serving two masters again), for the benefit of the body of Christ who are reading these articles.

    Being a mature Christian is not about just getting revelation and being hungry for the word for one’s personal edification, which is what we were made to believe in New Creation Church as acceptable. Being a mature Christian is about a) Love for Christ and b) Love for One Another. While I will not downplay the importance of being hungry for the word, it is indeed scriptural that God puts greater emphasis on loving one another far more than being hungry for the word for one’s own edification.

    ***

    I leave you with these 7 points to consider, on maturing in Christ (If you are lazy to read, at least click on the youtube hyperlink below in Point 8. It is a beautiful video and will be worth your time) :

    1) Being a mature Christian will reveal the fruits of the spirit, not of the flesh. The fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control” (Galatians 5:22-23). It also involves “taking up your cross and following Him” (Matthew 7:21-23), amongst other verses pertaining to sacrificing for Christ, as Christ did for us.

    2) A Normal Life May Not Suffice to Enter Heaven – I encourage you to read the parable on the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) talked about in the New Testament by Jesus Himself. He was a wealthy man, well respected, friendly and held parties, loved his family and brothers, but he STILL went straight to Hell after he died because he did not give alms to the poor.

    3) Not all believers will enter through the Narrow Gate – For it says “21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:21-23). Think about this for a moment. Even demons cry out “Lord Lord” and their names are written in the Book of Hell. What do you think makes a mature Christian any different from a Demon then if both believe in the Lord’s name without obeying God’s commands?

    4) God’s commandments difficult and impossible? Think again. The bible says God’s commandments are Not Burdensome. For it says in 1 John 5:2-4 “2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.”

    5) The Hyper-Grace Belief that we are saved purely by Grace May Not Get Us into Heaven So Easily – While I am not underestimating the power of grace and the redemptive power of the blood of Christ, I will leave you to ponder this extract from the New Testament from 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 “9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.”

    6) Joseph Prince places heavy emphasis on Earthly Wealth and Health – Hmm, I wonder what Jesus would have to say about Joseph Prince’s sermons, for Jesus Himself had said in Matthew 6:19-21 – 19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”

    7) Living for Self and Earthly Possessions is a Risky Proposition for your Eternal Welfare – 2 Timothy 4:3 “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires (desires of the eyes, flesh and the pride of life – 1 John 2:16), they will gather around them a great number of teachers (e.g. Prosperity Teachers) to say what their itching ears want to hear.” Those who do not endure sound doctrine, may (or may not) end up like those in Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

    8) FINALLY, I leave all of you with a beautiful video of a 98 year old man, who gave his home away to pay for church renovations, works hard to beg for money and give to the church (ironically, he was able to give EUR 35k++ per year while businessmen and politicians of his country only gave EUR 700 to EUR 2,800 per year), plus giving his hard earned money which he begged for to maintain the utility bills for an orphanage.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d2VoN3oiZ8

    The video depicting the 98 year old man is one of the finest examples of what it means to be a mature Christian who will reap ONE HUNDRED FOLD when he returns to his Father in Heaven. For it says in Mark 10:29-30 “29 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30 will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life.”

    While lukewarm Christians, carnal Christians, earthly Christians (not sure if any of these groups of Christians may enter through the narrow gate into Heaven, but I sincerely hope they will) may call this 98 year old man “Extreme”, God will certainly put this man at the front of the banquet table on the resurrection. In addition, his Mansion in Heaven will certainly look much different from the regular Christian who listened to feel good sermons for self-edification every Sunday and did nothing for people, especially those seriously in need, on other days of the week, to demonstrate his love for them while on earth.

    ***

    Bottom Line – To all New Creation Church members (I myself WAS one before) and all other lukewarm / earthly / carnal Christians, after reading and watching the above material, I encourage us all to “Examine ourselves to see whether we are in the faith; test ourselves (2 Corinthians 13:5).

    Being hungry and rejoicing in the word every Sunday for self-edification is only the beginning. Obeying God’s commandments by loving the Lord and one another (not just in the form of words, but by deeds) will demonstrate our true test of faith. And if you’re wondering if there are various degrees of rewards in Heaven based on our works done on earth? The answer is yes! Revelation 22:12 ►”Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.” Praise be to our Father in Heaven, Amen!

    New Living Translation
    “Look, I am coming soon, bringing my reward with me to repay all people according to their deeds.

  201. pjac00 Says:

    Here are some links on this 98 year old man. Certainly puts the NCC members / lukewarm / carnal / earthly Christians to shame doesnt it?
    – Article : http://awkwardsituationist.tumblr.com/post/50604116393/98-year-old-dobri-dobrev-a-man-who-lost-most-of
    – Article : http://saintdobry.com/elder-dobry-from-baylovo/
    – Video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d2VoN3oiZ8
    – Video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PjrwqA1gz8

    Come the feast on the Day of Resurrection, this man will most certainly be seated right at the front of the banquet table and his mansion will indeed be very different from others like the regular Christian who spends his Sundays having his ears tickled for self-edification.

  202. Paul Says:

    Yeap (or is it Chee Seng?),

    Thank you for the above detailed reply. I completely agree with all your points above without exception. As i have said, Pastor Prince is not balanced enough in his teachings. I also worry about the ‘sign of Satan’ which you will note that he uses (is it just a reflex motion? How can a man so filled with the Spirit be glorifying Satan? It must just be a reflex action, right? Personally, i don’t unerstand why he does it…it is a totally uncalled-for action; for more info on this, see this video: SIGNS OF SATAN – YouTube
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNVJSRkt9yg

    My ‘beef’ with you is your many postings on this blog in 2010 and before in which you explocitly state that not only does God want Christians to be rich and healthy; but that this is the normal standard for Christian life. But this is unscriptural and quite a big error. Hav you ever read any Christian biographies such as George Mueller? For instance, here is your posting from 2010:

    “In both cases, we can see a common theme in their thoughts. Both sides see riches and happiness as mutual exclusive. Yet, if you read the above verse, you can see that God does not share their views. In God’s view, riches and happiness come together. When the Lord blesses people, he made them both rich and happy.

    This is what a Christian life is supposed to be, rich and happy. Unlike the carnal people, we don’t have to choose either one. We can have both.

    Knowing this truth will set us free from the lies of theology. We do not have to be ashamed of our desire to be rich. Since God himself is not ashamed in wanting us to be rich, why should we be?

    It is time for us to live boldly for the Lord. It is the will of our God for us to prosper and be in health as our souls prosper. Let us move forward in this direction. Let us prepare ourselves to receive the abundance of wealth and health the Lord has planned for us.

    Please note also that the above verse does not come with the conditions relating to the state of the world’s economy. In other words, God wants us to be rich regardless of whether the economy is good or bad.”

    What you have written in these posts (is there any way to get rid of them?) is abhorrent to the Spirit and those words may lead many juvenile Christians or CINOs (Christians in Name Only) on their merry way to a wealthy hellfire. Please, for the love of Christ, get rid of those evil statements! While for SOME believers it may indeed be the will of God for them to prosper in this world, i believe God wants His people to fulfill the first and second commandments. This is a clear teaching of Jesus our Lord. There is NO excuse for ignoring or ‘wishing away’ those commandments. Yes, Joseph Prince is CORRECT that a Christian need not fear the wrath of God but this is not true if that soul is continually choosing to sin, for it not just going to impact his testimony and the glory of Christ in your life if you despise the commandments of God; it will weaken your faith to the point where you could become a slave to sin and to Satan AFTER conversion…and you may become an UNBELIEVER again…and worse, others may be tempted to follow your example in those statements, and be lost to God for ever. But, maybe i don’t understand how a blog operates…i guess those are past statements which illustrate your growth from a carnal Christian to a wise Christian…

    In an even more ignorant post, you have written “as Christians, we can sin and not worry about it anymore.” Yeap, is your opinion today still the same as regards to sin? For the Lord says “righteousness delivers from death” (Proverbs: 10:2, KJV) and the Bible never (actually in fact) contradicts itself. I hope your untenable position regarding sin and riches insofar as a believer is concerned, is now not part of your Christian witness? If so, it would be a really good! Idea if you could remove or qualify those earlier statements on your blog (which you may already have done somewhere).

    I love to hear Pastor Prince’s preaching on the love of Christ and the beauty of Christ. I do not believe in tithing however because it is not supported anywhere in the New Testament. In fact it is an Old Testament requirement. It seems that many churches now have decided to implement tithing…and by doing so, as Charles Spurgeon has written, they have invited Satan into the church. Also, i don’t believe in the lie that ‘speaking in an unknown tongue’ is a requirement as evidence a soul is born again; this is also not supported by Scripture, because EVERY reference to speaking in tongues in the New Testament is, in the original translation, a reference to speaking in a tongue UNKNOWN to the SPEAKER BUT KNOWN IN THE WORLD, and NEVER ‘unintelligible gibberish.’ Tongues, like tithing and other unsavoury and unBiblical practices, are NOT fromthe Holy Spirit because they CAUSE DIVISION in the body of Christ, which is the church. Anyway, please reply and let me know if you are going to remove all your unscriptural pages and words which will lead some into depravity, error and destruction.

    Sincerely,

    Paul

  203. pjac00 Says:

    Paul,

    pjac00 is not Yeap Chee Seng.

    pjac00 is new to this blog.

    Plain and simple.

  204. pjac00 Says:

    Hi Paul,

    Again, I am not Yeap Chee Seng, but am pjac00.

    You mentioned “I do not believe in tithing however because it is not supported anywhere in the New Testament.”

    True as that may be, consider what Jesus Himself said on the sermont on the mount and what ideals we should begin striving towards to … now : “Luke 12:33-34 – “Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”

    There are no short cuts, no easy way out, no discounting when it comes to entering through the narrow gates of Heaven. True, you need not tithe. But, you must give to the poor and the less fortunate in one way or other.

    Many roads lead to the Wide Gate into Hell, but there is only one way through the Narrow Gate into Heaven. And that is by obeying Jesus’s commands.

    Peace, brother.

  205. pjac00 Says:

    Hi again Paul,

    As for speaking in tongues, you could be right in saying that speaking in tongues mean that the speech may be UNKNOWN to the SPEAKER BUT KNOWN IN THE WORLD, and NEVER unintelligible gibberish.

    Moreover, the bible is clear that the we are exorted to prohesy (to state that (a specified thing) will happen in the future) rather than speak in tongues. It states in 1 Corinthians 14:4-5 – “Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[b] but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,[c] unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.”

    Speaking in tongues can be genuine or fake. But the true test is whether the gift of prophecy (to foretell the future) falls on the one who claims to be able to speak in tongues. (As Jesus Himself asked, it is easier to forgive someone of his sins? Or, to heal a crippled man and enable him to walk? Likewise, is it easier for a Mega Church Healing Ministry to prove a person was healed of “internal” cancer / leg pains / back pains? Or, have the arms and legs of an amputee grow back during the Healing Ministry?)

    Being a Christian is purposeful and does not mean putting our brains outside the church hall.

  206. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I tried but cannot find any unscriptural posts in my blog. As for the comments, I would like to keep them to see the diversity of views.

  207. pjac00 Says:

    And one last thing. This may make some misguided Christians uncomfortable…

    As a Christian, I have always wondered why the early church (during the time of the Apostles) as well as current Buddhist and Hindu temples freely gave food to the poor at all times of the day, while modern day churches in Singapore hardly do any such thing.

    A handful of Buddhist and Hindu temples in Singapore give free food to the poor – 24/7. And some people, especially the old and jobless in Singapore, are really dead broke! These pagan temples have a policy where you can pay as much as you can afford for the food. So, if you can’t afford it and pay 10 cents, you can have a huge meal at the pagan temple. But if you can afford it, you are free to drop in a donation of any sum you choose.

    Even PAGANS in Singapore have more love and compassion for the poor than most Christian churches, which, by are no means small. Ironic isn’t it? God’s second greatest commandment was to love one another and our churches are just not displaying the same kind of love that the PAGAN temples are demonstrating!

    I’ve had people tell me that Christian Churches have overseas ministries. How blind can these “Christians” be? Charity begins at home!

  208. Paul Says:

    Totally agree with you 100 percent. But it is much more than food…it is food, clothing, a job, housing, and many other necessities. The Singapore Government controls $500,000,000,000 which belongs to the Singaporean people and to PRs. That is $100,000 per person in Singapore, leaving a mere $100,000,000,000 for the future of Singapore — or enough to build about 100 more Star Performing Arts Centers. But love without Christ is not love: it is a form of Socialism. We need a revolution of love, “…faith, which works by love” (Galatians, 5:6). No Government, and especially no Socialist or fascist Government, will ever repent and believe the Gospel while it is megalomaniacally controlling the financial futures of more than four million persons. So, it is up to the Christians, and the God who is faithful, to make a difference for humanity by removing dependence on Governments and their diabolical fiat money systems, and teaching the world to depend on God alone, as George Mueller did.

  209. Paul Says:

    pjac, i responded to Cheap’s long post above but, unfortunately, the way this blogging system works, it looked like i was responding to you! Actually, my response above is to Chee Seng.

  210. Paul Says:

    Hi pjac00,

    Thanks for your pleasant warning about falling into Hell, if i don’t give to the poor ‘in one way or another,” followed by your sweet “peace, brother.” I will not justify myself before you, as God knows my works and my heart. However, i must warn you that if you do tithe and have expftation of gain, you contradict Christ, who taught us to do the opposite. If you do tithe, and you believe the lie that you will definitely receive “a hundredfold” in return, then you deserve to suffer as many have including myself, with job loss, sickness, premature death in the family, and many other ills which, according to some Faith Preachers, “will never happen” to those who faithfully tithe. To be blunt, Jesus is God and He doesn’t need your filthy money; out of nothing He can create a multitude of universes. But, i definitely agree with you if you are saying (in a general sense, and NOT out of any law provision in the Old Testament) that a born-again believer MUST NEEDS be led by the Spirit; and will WITHOUT DOUBT have a CRAVING to love and to give to others in need. This means he or she will OF COURSE practice the type of LOVE that Jesus his or her Master practiced. However…since there are SO MANY deceiving wicked spirits in the world today, as Christians we must be WISE as serpents and NEVER give where the money we worked hard for, and which God provided freely to us, is stolen, squandered, or worse, used to indulge in wickedness and depravity.

  211. pjac00 Says:

    Paul :

    You mentioned “But it is much more than food…it is food, clothing, a job, housing, and many other necessities,”

    Really? 1 Timothy 6:8 says ► “But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that.” I didn’t see Paul stating job / housing.

    There is a Malay beggar who is old, without a job, without a family and without a place to lay his head; and, has nothing to call his own except a few clothes and his only home – a small little tent at East Coast Park. He is still alive after many years and God provided for him. He begs for money along the overhead bridge next to a Hawker Center and goes back to his tent along the beach each day. The problem was that the money he begged for to be used for food did not necessarily come on a bad day. A Christian resolved that problem by making monthly payments to a nearby Indian Hawker to pay for the Malay man’s daily meals. A Malay NT Bible would soon be given to him, in the hope of bringing him to the one true God and his beloved Son.

    Our life on earth is so short and “like a vapor” (James 4:14) compared to the weight of eternity in Paradise.

    Take time to think about that – our life is “like a vapor.”

    If you Truly meditate on that, you would not be losing sleep or worried about whether you achieve your dreams on earth / find your true love on earth / be respected amongst men on earth / develop your own self esteem on earth / worried about your next promotion on earth / etc.

    The pangs of Eternal Hell is described very clearly in Luke 16:19-31 and is a place of fire, thirst, torment and agony (and mind you, a good handful of those who are “respected by men” on this earth who pay no heed to God will end up there). On the other hand, the joys and rewards of an Eternal Heaven are also coming your way if you obey Jesus’s commandments and do good deeds, as shown in Revelation 22:12 ”“Look, I am coming soon, bringing my reward with me to repay all people according to their deeds.”

    Therefore, as Jesus himself said on the sermon on the mount (Matthew 6:25), “Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink…” – Take no thought for your life, what a beautiful way to live for Christ! Serve and suffer and die if need be, find joy in sanctified affliction, for “Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:39).

    “Extreme” you might say? Depends on how determined and ambitious you are to enter through the Narrow Gate and what kind of Treasures in Heaven you intend to store for yourselves; and, the love you have for your father in Heaven to obey Him. Remember, we are on earth for only less than 100 years, but once you’re in heaven, your treasures will be permanent and for an eternity!

    One of the many videos that changed my perception towards the Prosperity Gospel; and, how we as mature Christians should strive not to care about the Foolish things of this world that the pagans so desperately desire and pursue …

  212. pjac00 Says:

    Paul, you ought to measure your words more carefully. See what Jesus said below.

    *********************************
    Case 1)
    *********************************
    [You, said] if you do tithe and have expectation of gain, you contradict Christ

    [I, pjac00, said] The 98 year old saint, Dobri Dobrev, who lives on his EUR 80 per month pension, sold his house to pay for the church renovations, begs the public to give him money which he fully gives back to churches and an orphanage, will reap ONE HUNDRED FOLD when he returns to his Father in Heaven. Not on earth.

    [Jesus said] Mark 10:30-32 “Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel’s,But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life. But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.”

    *********************************
    Case 2)
    *********************************
    [You, said] Jesus is God and He doesn’t need your filthy money

    [Jesus said] Matthew 25:31-46 >> Parable of The Sheep and the Goats

    31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

    34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

    37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

    40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

    41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

    44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

    45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

    46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

  213. Paul Says:

    Pjac00,

    Thanks for the lovely video brother; i have seen it before and it’s very good. I especially love the second man’s words, as he points out that Jesus is my reward in Heaven. If we are not in love with Jesus, then our taking the name of Christ is in vain. And, no amount of good works we do will amount to anything. If we are not in love with Jesus, then we are not in love with the world as God is; neither do we actually, in fact, love the brethren…i don’t believe in doing good works unless the work is driven by God…ie it is not from me….not for my purposes…not for my will…not for my reasons. I hope you are not like the Catholics, who emphasize doing good works, to please God; but, rather, seeking to do the will of God, through works of faith, led by the Spirit, in the love of the Father? I believe that is what you desire; but your words seem to emphasize that we will be punished for not doing good works. I think not. I think Christians will be given stripes for knowing the will of God–and not doing it; AND for not knowing the will of God and not doing enough to find it out! This is in fact, scriptural. But i hasten to add, those truths have NOTHING to do with soeaking gibberish tongues; seeking earthly wealth and riches and the praise of men…which Pastor Prince does indeed seem to encourage in his preaching, sometimes.

  214. Paul Says:

    Pjac00,

    I did not see your new post after the video…i was trying to point out only that as Christians, if we are burdened always by what we need or want in terms of money, houses, cars, jobs, etc., then how can God use us? My understanding of what Jesus means “he shall receive an hundredfold” is that ‘he’ will receive housing, lands, and much more as he serves the Lord, FOR THE LORD’S USE and NOT for his lusts or those of his carnally-minded wife or friends. That is, the “hundredfold” DOES NOT mean that by giving to God or the church, a Christian will get back ‘100 times more’ back from God ‘to use as he pleases’ (even if that means he can indeed give more). Is this what you mean by doing ‘good works?’ I thought our purpose as Christians is to seek the will of our Father in Heaven and then do the works He calls us to do? If that is what you mean then we agree. Serving God or doing good works to get anything from God, rather than seeking to serve and love God and do His will (from which Spirit-led desires will come good works pleasing to God, because they will be driven by faith and not something of the flesh) is backwards….putting the cart before the horse. Please clarify if we disagree or i am wrong in my thinking. How about you; do you attend the services at NCC? What do you think of Pastor Prince and his messages? Isn’t that partly what this blog is about?

  215. pjac00 Says:

    Paul,

    [You said] However…since there are SO MANY deceiving wicked spirits in the world today, as Christians we must be WISE as serpents and NEVER give where the money we worked hard for, and which God provided freely to us, is stolen, squandered, or worse, used to indulge in wickedness and depravity.

    [You said] i don’t believe in doing good works unless the work is driven by God…ie it is not from me….not for my purposes…not for my will…not for my reasons. I hope you are not like the Catholics, who emphasize doing good works, to please God; but, rather, seeking to do the will of God, through works of faith, led by the Spirit, in the love of the Father? I believe that is what you desire; but your words seem to emphasize that we will be punished for not doing good works.

    It’s funny you said that because when I was a New Creation Church regular attendee, I felt that way too. I gave myself the following excuses A) Not to Give to the Poor and B) Not to do Good Works Unless It was Driven by God

    A) On Giving to the Poor :
    – If i give money to this beggar in front of me, how will i know he won’t spend it on drugs or liquor?
    – If i give money to this beggar in front of me, the beggar may actually have money and he may be cheating me
    – If i give money to this beggar in front of me, the beggar may actually squander the money
    These were only excuses to not give! Don’t give money then, buy food for them! Don’t give cash, give clothes to them!

    B) On Doing Good Works Unless it is Driven by God :
    – How do I know whether to give S$20 to this Blind Beggar Man and if this desire to give is driven by God or not?
    – How do I know whether to commit to paying for the meals of this old woman without family, without home and if this desire to commit is driven by God or not?
    – How do I know whether to spend time with this old lonely man without family and if this is God’s desire for me to do so?
    These were pathetic excuses I made for myself not to give – again! If you truly have a heart for God, you will not hesitate to even think of the bad when it comes to giving.

    Even if you did give to 1 unscruplous beggar out of 9 honest beggars, would God penalize you for that? Many friends of mine who HATE giving money to charity always give the same old excuses that go something like this – “Wait till you get cheated by 1 or 2 dishonest beggars, then you will regret it. Good luck to you!” Do you think if you truly have a heart for God, that will even matter? Especially if you were able to truly help say 9 out of 10 cases?

    Finally, consider this : Luke 6:29-31 To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic[a] either. 30 Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. 31 And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.”

    Jesus said to “give to EVERYONE who begs from you.” Considering whether those who beg from you are going to “cheat you of your hard earned money” is simply your Flesh talking, not the Spirit.

  216. pjac00 Says:

    Paul,

    On your question on the one-hundred fold, the apologetics give a good explanation of it :

    Incidentally, they also compare Joseph Prince’s teaching compared to Holy Scripture :
    – Joseph Prince and his message of radical grace – PLUS his word faith teachings (http://www.letusreason.org/Popteach56.htm)

    On the term “one hundred fold” : http://www.letusreason.org/Biblexp69.htm

    Mark 10:28-31: Then Peter began to say to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You.” So Jesus answered and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel’s, who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time–houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions–and in the age to come, eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

    Many use this hundredfold as money sown has the promise to receive a hundredfold return.

    This is a carnal interpretation of the scripture. These scriptures do not even mention money…. the promoters of this give to get formulae have made good use of this by distorting its meaning.

    If this is literal- then what of persecutions, there is a promise of 100 fold of persecutions attached to this promise. So what really is the intent of this passage.

    The scriptures says hundredfold of houses….mothers, fathers, children, land etc. How many do you know who have a hundred houses- a hundred mothers or a hundred children? What this means is that we gain a whole new family, it’s related to fellowship and sharing of the brethren. As we leave our family as a security to follow Jesus, and he becomes our priority and our supplier of needs. Manifold blessings are given to those who follow the Lord sacrificially. We have a hundred times the “value” of all we forsake, the favor of God in relationships.

    Many homes will be opened to God’s servants and the many new relationships in the household of God. Houses and lands are accommodations wherever we go for the gospel sake. We come into the family of God and gain a bigger family. God’s promise of provisions for being in the family is eternal rewards now and the life later. It continues through eternity. The persecutions came from those who forsook the comforts of their lives to follow Jesus. In ancient times there was a price for their allegiance, they could lose their job and often times face death. Those who have left all for the sake of Christ do find themselves among genuine Christians; spiritual relatives.

    V.30. [In this time] In this life. In the time that he forsakes all. The world to come, in the original language, is the coming age. It refers to the Messiah’s second advent and the events connected with it, and his position in the Millennium.

    To settle whether this is about financial gain; if we go back to the preceding verses the spirit of the text makes the context clear. In vs.17-22 a rich man comes to Jesus asking how to have eternal life he points to the commandments of which he replies that he has kept them since he was young. Jesus sees he is sincere in his pursuit and loved him by saying the one thing that was hindering him: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.” V.22 But he was sad at this word, and went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. vs.23 Jesus then makes the statement how hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God the disciples are astonished he then makes it even clearer that it is hard for those who trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God. vs.25 “It is easier for a camel to go through an eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Those use this as a hundredfold return are gravely mistaken. It means to give away your abundance to those in need so you won’t be trapped by trusting in riches for your security in life and you will have treasure in heaven. There may be many surprised when rewards are handed out and they see others rewarded for giving much less than they did. Jesus is not concerned about amount but our motives. If you gave and were recognized by everyone-You already received your reward. The Pharisees motives were to be seen by all to make them look spiritual as if they were sacrificing. These were wrong motives.

    Godliness is profitable “for all things,” having the promise of the life that is sufficient for now, and for that which is to come.

  217. pjac00 Says:

    To answer your question Paul,

    I stopped going to new creation church because I disagree with Joseph Prince’s earthly focus. Our focus should strive to be spiritual.

    Fact : He does have a nice and seductive auditorium no doubt. He is also quite entertaining and he does provide some revelation from the bible. But the revelation tends to have a practical, earthly edge to it, which will appeal to the mainstream Christian masses who are not yet ready to sacrifice Self for Christ.

    Truth be told, I actually wanted to read the New Testament because of Joseph Prince and no one else!

    Ironically, the more I read the Bible, the more I disagreed with Joseph Prince!

  218. Paul Says:

    My dear brother in Christ,

    Although i regularly attend at NCC, my background is one of agnosticism. My family is originally from Belfast, the area of the world where religious hatred and bigotry has ruined, through Satan’s deceits and devices, many otherwise Godly people. My parents decided not to indoctrinate myself and my three brothers in any religion, because of their hatred of the idiocy practiced by religious unregenerate people. A common saying in Ireland is “good living, FOR a living” (meaning, putting on a cloak of religious piety to take other people’s money by deceit and avarice). All i meant in my comments, which you seem to be taking out of context or misunderstanding, is that if God provides someone in need, then i give from the heart, with good motives and right motives: my whole conversation to you is focused on the motives of the giver, not the one receiving. Of course i give to those in need; to do otherwise is wicked, if you are a born-again Christian. But, in the past, out of a desire to love God and to do what is right, i gave a tithe (more than $20,000) to my local church, only to learn that they were not honest before God and were in fact deceiving the Government about their charitable status, about duty that should have been paid on imports overseas, about many other things. I also lost $600 cash to a loanshark who deceived me about a loan i was seeking to help our church finance our building…and i was defrauded of my Thanksgiving savings (all i had in my wallet, about $60) which i gave to a man who begged for help, at a bus station, to get to a remote part of Canada. As soon as i gave him the money, he walked out of the bus station. But, do you honestly and sincerely believe that i am not going to give account to God, for unwise giving? If i give my offerng to Jerry Falwell, so he can put gold plating on his dog’s kennel (true story), do you think God doesn’t care what i do with His money? I think He does care and that you are a bit mistaken. It is absolutely right to give as the Lord leads and NEVER for merely emotional and logical reasons (such as through a funding drive at your church or through ‘Miracle Seed Sundays.’ Does your church need a $1000,000 renovation? How much GOOD is it doing in the community? Does it work hard in missions? Does it work hard to heal the sick, feed the hungry, help the poor? Jesus is very close to the poor of this world, who (unlike the rich, which i know from personal experience) are “rich in faith.” He LOVES the poor and He greatly desires that we do also. However, i firmly believe that in our giving, while we must give, the reason for giving must be that it is from a true loving motive, NEVER to get back anything…and, secondly, that if we are anxious to show the love of God, we must do so intelligently and wisely. After all, every soul is going to GIVE ACCOUNT not just for his works but for HOW HE SPENT WHAT GOD GAVE HIM. My advice to you is to give generously, and with love, to those in need and those who ask you (food or clothing or money and even shelter; if you’re worried about money, don’t give a lot…buy him or her lunch or give them a dinner voucher) but, as a wise steward, give with discernment and focus on helping our neighbors to believe in God and Jesus.

    Think i have said enough on this topic. I have lived in three comtinents and five countries. I see that in Singapore, there is this unusual emphasis in the Christian community on speaking in tongues, healing; “miracles,” and personal success and wealth; but not much emphasis on saving the lost and helping the poor. While this is true of the rest of the world as well, i am very sad to see how deeply-engrained it is in Singapore, which implies the root cause is the selfishness of the culture.

    Do i attend at NCC? For the moment. Will i ever be a registered member? I very much doubt it, especially since there isn’t much emphasis on building up new disciples, ensuring that those who come to the services understand the Gospel and know what it means to repent and believe it; and little outreach work that i know of that is well-financed (the building cost $500 million; but probably less than 1 per cent of that goes to outreach, in spite of the fact that 85 per cent of lost mankind lives in this part of the world).

    I hope i have given you food for thought…i think we have discussed this topic enough?

    Cheers

    Paul

  219. Paul Says:

    pjac00,

    Ok…so in my travels i have met several people and made friends with quite a few, who were street people. I myself was homeless for six months when i could not find work. When i see someone who is begging for change, almost invariably that person has no fixed address. Tell me, smarty pants, how useful is money, food, or clothing, to a street person who is soaking in the rain, sleeping on the street when it is 20 degrees below zero; or young and female? Your lack of experience and intellectual arguments belie your fairly significant ignorance on this subject. This is what i meant by ‘It is far more than merely food, clothing.’ You just quote scripture. Doing that to a street person, is likely to get you served some rather strong language (and deservedly so).

    Paul

  220. Paul Says:

    Yeap Chee Seng, barring anything unusual happening since 2012 it is my firm conviction that you have never understood the gospel, nor has the Spirit of God done anything in you, and you are still lost to God, and will die in your sins. You mock those who try to speak spiritual truth to you, and greedily tell them to give you their money. You must be what the Bible calls a reprobate. May God break you suddenly and quickly, sparing your life with enough time to prepare to meet Him; but cut your words off this blog permanently and remove the blog from the face of the earth, before this year ends.

  221. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Another self proclaimed God.

  222. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    This is another example of religious hypocrisy. When their lies are exposed, they demand the exposer to delete his blog.

  223. Paul Says:

    A THOROUGH REFUTATION OF THE FALSE-GRACE HERESY OF JOSEPH PRINCE PART 2

    by Pastor Chace Gordon
    posted on August 23rd, 2013 at 12:40 PM
    Quote #29:

    “Let’s not build a whole doctrine on one verse. If confession of sins is vital for your forgiveness, then Apostle Paul, who wrote two-thirds of the New Testament, has done us a great injustice because he did not mention it even once—not once—in any of his letters to the church.”

    Chapter 9, page 107

    NOTE: First, we dismissed the Old Testament as relevant for doctrine; then we dismissed Jesus and the gospels as relevant for doctrine; now we dismiss the relevancy of John on the simple grounds that John is NOT Paul, the apostle of grace. At this rate, we can eventually dismiss the whole Bible because we spend so much time disqualifying its relevancy of application from one portion to another, we might as well join the Mormon church!

    Do we believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God or don’t we? Do we believe the books of the Bible are flawless and in perfect harmony together or don’t we? Then let us STOP suggesting that the vast majority of the Bible, including the gospels and other New Testament writers, are out of step with the Pauline revelation!

    But for the sake of clarity, Paul taught the same doctrine as Jesus and John. When we talk about confession of sins, we are talking about repentance. This is not a separate and unusual doctrine that Paul omitted because it wasn’t relevant. Paul taught and demonstrated the doctrine of repentance throughout his letters and the Book of Acts. He referred to the doctrine of repentance as foundational doctrine for believers. He categorized it as “milk”, as “elementary”, as “first principle” (see Hebrews 5:11-6:1). There are plenty of both Old and New Testament verses that confirm the clear link between confession of sin and repentance.

    On the same token, if confession of sins is NOT vital for forgiveness, then Apostle Paul, who wrote two-thirds of the New Testament, has done us a great injustice because he did not mention it even once—not once—in any of his letters to the church! Of course, for him to do so, would have been contrary to all other scripture, and therefore, uninspired by God.

    Quote #30:

    “When there were people in the Corinthian church living in sin, he [Paul] did not say, ‘Go and confess your sins.’ Instead, he reminded them of their righteousness, saying, ‘Do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you?’ Notice that in spite of their sins, Paul still considered them temples of the Holy Spirit and he reminded them of this truth.”

    Chapter 9, page 107

    NOTE: Paul was not reminding them of their righteousness—they weren’t (Is this hard?). He was reminding them of their purpose. He was reminding them they were made to actually be righteous.

    Quote #31:

    “When we understand this verse [I John 1:7], we realize that even when we sin, we sin in the realm of light! So, if we sin in the light, we are cleansed in the light, and we are kept in the light. This idea of us going into darkness when we sin is not from the Bible.”

    Chapter 9, page 108

    NOTE: The idea of us going into darkness when we sin CAME FROM THE BIBLE!

    Let’s read the aforementioned passages together (including the skipped over verse 8):

    “But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”—I John 1:7-9

    It says, “if we walk in the light as He is in the light…” This means walking in the light AS CHRIST WALKS in the light. Does Christ walk in sin in the light? I don’t think so! What are these verses saying? When you walk in the light, you are cleansed by the blood of Jesus! If you have not dealt with sin because you deny its presence (or a false grace teacher tells you to ignore it), you are self-deceived. However, if and when you do sin, you are cleansed through confessing it (a.k.a.—repentance).

    Quote #32:

    “Did you know that even the word “cleanses” in I John 1:7 is really beautiful? In the Greek, the tense for the word “cleanse” denotes a present and continuous action, which means that from the moment you receive Christ, the blood of Jesus keeps on cleansing you. It is as if you are under a waterfall of His forgiveness. Even when you fail, this waterfall never stops. It keeps on keeping on, cleansing you from ALL your sins and unrighteousness.”

    Chapter 9, pages 108-109

    NOTE: Admittedly, I am no expert on Greek—especially Greek verb tenses. However, I have no problem with the idea of the blood of Jesus providing perpetual cleansing. I would even tend to agree with Joseph Prince that the cleansing in verse 7 is different from the cleansing in verse 9. The problem lies in the notion that being perpetually cleansed means perpetually sinning. I’m not sure “waterfall of perpetual forgiveness” is how I would describe this verse’s meaning either.

    The best way I could describe the different types of cleansing here is: one type of cleansing is for falling into sin; the other type of cleansing is for staying free from sin. Even though I believe through the power of grace I can stop sinning, I still live in a world corrupted through sin—and I need the blood of Jesus to keep me from falling. I need to keep my mind renewed by the washing of the Word; I need to fellowship with God through prayer; I need to fellowship with people of like-faith; etc. etc. We are cleansed people who for the time being, live in a very dirty environment that permeates all of the five senses. We need the blood of Jesus to keep the filth out of our hearts and minds. This doesn’t make us sinners; it just means we need spiritual maintenance.

    Quote #33:

    “In I John 2:1, John addressed the believers as ‘My little children’…and went on to say, ‘These things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ.’ Notice that John did not tell the believers, ‘If anyone sins, make sure that he confesses his sins.’ No, his solution for a believer who sins is to point him to the finished work of Jesus.”

    NOTE: This is misleading. Notice our Advocate is a Person, not an event. Also note that Jesus did not die on a cross to save us from the act of repentance.

    Quote #34:

    “Did the cross make a difference or not? Jesus Christ has already delivered all believers from the covenant of law which condemns.”

    Chapter 10, page 117

    NOTE: Jesus Christ did not die on the cross to save us from the Old Testament that God Himself authored.

    Quote #35:

    “For generations, the church has believed that by preaching the Ten Commandments, we will produce holiness. When we see sin on the increase, we start to preach more of the law. But the Word of God actually says that “the strength of sin is the law.” It also says that “sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace”. So the power for the church to overcome sin is actually found in being under grace and not in reinforcing the law. Preaching more of the law to counteract sin is like adding wood to the fire!”

    Chapter 10, page 121

    NOTE: Chapter ten is actually the best chapter so far at describing the differences between “law” and “grace”; however, many of the inferences concerning the law are not accurate.

    Sample false inference: “Since the law of Moses was referred to in II Corinthians 3:7-9 as the ministry of death and condemnation, THEN teaching the law will bring people into bondage, make them sin more, etc.”

    A few additional points about the law (see my comments under quote #1 & quote #9):

    (1) While the law of Moses is no longer in force, the laws of the kingdom ARE IN FORCE! In addition, virtually ALL of the moral law of the Old Testament is included in the new covenant (with the exception of keeping the Sabbath which was ceremonial law—but even in the case of the Sabbath, the spiritual and moral principles behind keeping the Sabbath are still passed on in the new covenant). Actually, in the New Testament we are given 1050 commands for New Testament Christians to obey! (See Dake study Bible, under heading “New Testament Commands for complete list). Therefore, it is a misunderstanding of the covenant of grace to believe the teaching of “law” brings bondage and causes us to sin more.

    (2) There is a vast difference between not being “under the law” and being “without the law”. Being under grace does not mean we are exempt from obeying laws. It means we are not under penalty of the law because grace enables us to KEEP the law!

    It is not presumption to believe we can keep the laws God gave us. It is presumption to believe God gave us laws we could not fulfill since He gave us His grace to fulfill them!

    (3) Even though the law of Moses is obsolete because a new contract has been written, the law is still used to convert the sinner before grace is extended!

    Consider the words of Jesus to the Pharisees in John 9:39: “…I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.” Why did Jesus add that last part about making those who see blind first?—Because if a man will not recognize his own blindness; he cannot be made to see. The law is that which God uses to kill before new life can come! (Also see Galatians 2:19)
    Consider I Peter 5:5b: “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” So if God Himself REFUSES to give the gospel/good news of grace to everyone; but ONLY gives grace to the humble, what does that mean? It means that if pride is in your heart, God will not reveal His grace to you until you are made humble first! What tool then does God use to humble the proud to find grace and repentance? THE LAW!
    Consider these quotes:
    “The true function of the law is to accuse and kill; but the function of the gospel is to make alive.”—Martin Luther
    “Although the law serves as a guide to genuine believers, its primary function is to kill and destroy self-righteousness. All hope in our good works must be put to death if we are ever to depend on Jesus, who alone can bring life. The law brings that necessary death.”—Kirk Cameron (even the guy from “Growing Pains” gets this!) J
    “The unsaved are in no condition today for the Gospel till the Law be applied to their hearts, for ‘by the Law is the knowledge of sin.’ It is a waste of time to sow seed on ground that has never been ploughed or spaded! To present the vicarious sacrifice of Christ to those whose dominant passion is to take fill of sin is to give that which is holy to the dogs.”—A.W. Pink
    “He that sows without a plow will reap without a sickle. He who preaches the gospel without preaching the Law may hold all the results of it in his hand, and there will be little for him to hold.”—Charles Spurgeon
    “You must preach the Law, for the gospel is a silken thread, and you cannot get it into the hearts of men unless you have made a way for it with a sharp needle; the sharp needle of the Law will pull the silken thread of the gospel after it.”—Robbie Flockhart
    (4) Knowing the law of the Lord (a.k.a. the Bible) helps us grow in our relationship with God and have better discernment for the spiritual battles we face. As Paul told us in II Timothy 4:3 concerning the last days, “the time would come when men would not endure sound doctrine.” Since one of the greatest tools of Satan in the last days will be deceiving people away from sound doctrine, can we not see the dangers of ignoring HUGE portions of the scripture because they talk about laws? This is NOT studying to show ourselves approved (II Timothy 2:15)! Must we continue to insist that people who stick with the scriptures for doctrine are “legalists”? To quote a frequently used phrase from Pastor Prince, “Come on!” Can we really better keep the spirit of the law by ignoring the letter altogether?

    If David could wax eloquent in the Psalms about loving the law of the Lord, keeping His commandments, meditating on them day and night, etc. Why can’t we love God’s laws too—ESPECIALLY in the age of grace!

    (5) II Timothy 3:15-17

    The source of equipment for all end-time believers is the entire Bible
    All scripture is given
    Either the whole Bible is the Word of God, or the whole Bible is wrong! We cannot pick and choose and say that the writers of certain passages missed God, while the writers of other passages were right on! That’s arrogance, deception, and frustrates the spirit of Grace!
    The whole Bible is flawless in context and in perfect harmony, there are no contradictions, only misconceptions; it takes a man who doesn’t know the Holy Spirit to confuse something so simple and so direct!
    By inspiration of God—every book in the Bible was planned and directed of God
    Profitable for doctrine—all Scripture interprets and supports all other scripture; there are no scriptures that are contradictory, only misinterpreted; all scripture forms the basis of our belief system; all scripture may be used to convince men of truth
    Profitable for reproof—all scripture provides evidence of truth
    Profitable for correction—all scripture exposes deception and wickedness, as well as lays out consequences and guides to righteousness
    Profitable for instruction in righteousness—all scripture provides a guide for daily Christian living
    Completion of the man of God—all scripture in proper application brings us to perfection
    Full equipment for every good work—all scripture and its understanding will produce demonstrations of the spirit and of power
    Enough said.

    Quote #36:

    “When dealing with any problem in life, we want to get to its root…The world has found that many sicknesses and diseases are linked to a root called stress…The world has also identified fear as the root cause of stress…The Lord showed me a root that was deeper than stress and fear…The Lord showed me that the deepest root is condemnation.”

    Chapter 11, pages 129-131

    The Bible teaches that there is an even DEEPER root than that! For after all, what causes condemnation? SIN!!!

    To quote something I heard my dad once say, “Condemnation is the ‘stink’ of sin.”

    Ignoring the sin-problem to focus on the condemnation-problem is like spraying Febreeze instead of taking out the trash!

    I don’t mean to belittle the problem of condemnation; but let’s examine the source of it as well.

    Is condemnation a real problem in the church? You bet it is! I’ll tell you why in a nutshell: cheap grace & ineffective altar calls.

    Consider this quote taken from a theology textbook I researched at a local university:

    “One of the most important changes in Evangelical life in the 20th century has been the consistent loss of the centrality of the experience of repentance. Perhaps this is a point at which evangelicals have been influenced by the liberal tendency to downplay sinfulness and to emphasize the positive aspects of human ability, but 20th century evangelicals have tended to press unconverted persons to an immediate experience of conversion, in which there is little or no room for the extended period of repentance that characterized earlier evangelicalism. Some evangelicals, concerned with the contemporary renewal of interest in Christian spirituality, have lamented the loss of the place of repentance in the way of salvation and have worked to restore a balanced understanding of repentance as significant to evangelical life.”

    Christian Confessions by Ted Campbell, p. 230

    In short, we’ve minimized the importance of repentance in our evangelistic efforts and are reaping the consequences from that negligence. Our churches are full of people who struggle with condemnation primarily because our churches are full of people who struggle with sin. Faith without repentance is nothing more than mental ascent—and mental ascent will leave you in a condemned state.

    So how does one deal with the problem of condemnation? It’s found in II Corinthians 7:9-11:

    “Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.”

    These verses are powerful! They tell us two very important things:

    (1) Godly sorrow leading to repentance is the antidote to condemnation!

    (2) Conversely, rejection of godly sorrow is a major factor in why people lose their passion for God! Which incidentally, rejection of godly sorrow is also a major factor in why people turn away from sound doctrine and run to “itching ear” preachers!

  224. pjac00 Says:

    Godly sorrow (2 Corinthians 7:10) is beautiful and true to Holy Scripture.

    ***

    Here is Joseph Prince saying the opposite – He says “God’s Good Opinion Of You Never Changes!” (which implies, though does not explicitly say, that godly sorrow is not required) … I wonder if God even had a good opinion of those who called themselves Christians and said “Lord Lord” yet practiced lawlessness and iniquity because it clearly states that those who do not repent will not enter the Narrow Gate into the Kingdom of Heaven (◄ Galatians 6:7 ► and ◄ Matthew 7:21-23 ►)

    http://www.josephprince.com/2014/01/gods-good-opinion-of-you-never-changes-2

    Joseph Prince’s teaching emphasizes a lot on self (not selflessness, which is what was commanded of us by Jesus himself in Matthew 22:36-40)… can see why so many flock to that church. Most people, even most Christians, are self-centered.

    Time to evaluate and examine ourselves (2 Corinthians 13:5)

  225. Paul Says:

    Yeap Chee Seng Says:
    September 7, 2012 at 2:16 am
    My place in heaven is guaranteed by the finished works of Jesus Christ. I don’t need perversions.

    Yeap,

    Is this still your belief? On reading that, it made me think for a moment. If your place IS guaranteed in Heaven, then why is it so? You say, “because of the finished work of Christ.” That is not true. If it were true, then the moment Jesus died on the Cross to pay for the sins of all of us, NOBODY WOULD EVER NEED TO REPENT. If that is true, then WHY was Jesus sent by God? Why was He preaching to the Pharisees that “…if you believe not that I am He, you shall die in your sins.” ? You are mistaken, and twist Scripture to support your bad theory. Jesus came from God, came from Heaven, and lived (don’t forget that part! He lived for many years BEFORE He preached the gospel…and that the ONLY sinless life anyone has EVER lived…before the Cross) TO FULFILL THE WILL OF GOD. The will of God is that EVERYONE is saved and returns to be with Him in Heaven. BUT we have a CHOICE whether to believe in Him, to SEEK His will; to LOVE HIM or NOT. Therefore, while the work Jesus did (and YES IT WAS A WORK OF FAITH) on the Cross IS SUFFICIENT TO PAY FOR SALVATION FOR EVERYONE, NOT EVERYONE WILL CHOOSE IT. Choosing to die to your self, and your ungodly lusts, your love of money, etc., is YOUR WORK OF FAITH that recognises what Jesus did…when you undstand this, you will understand that a Christian CANNOT continue to choose to love sin…and despise God…he or she must CHOOSE to love God; and hate sin. That CHOICE can ONLY be seen by others by our ACTIONS….”let your works be such before men that they will see them and give glory to God in Heaven.” Can God get glory from your love of money? Can God get glory from your selfish lust for riches? Become a millionnaire, I don’t care! Fine! BUT BEWARE THAT YOU DO NOT SELL YOUR SOUL TO BECOME ONE. There are MANY warnings in the Bible about the deceitfulness of riches. BELIEVE THEM!!! You can be wealthy; but HOW can we be wealthy if we never LOVE riches?

  226. Prima Says:

    I have to thank God for Joseph Prince for renewing my interest in christianity and reviving my spirit. He is a very talented man and made me interested to seek God and read my bible.

    I have a problem with the teaching at NCC. Its very legalistic and puts people into bondage. Even though they preach about being set free from grace and legalism.. you are actually brought back into it when you don’t agree with all their theology.

    My point is that freedom for christians allows them to continually renew/change their beliefs.. its called “Repentance” or “change of mind” which is a work of the Spirit of grace..

    If everyone is believing exactly the same things and all have a rigid theology (even about grace) then its back to legalism again.

  227. Test the Spirits Says:

    Prima,

    So after attending New Creation Church and listening to Pastor Joseph Prince’s sermons, what is/are the most important thing(s) you have learnt as a Christian?

  228. Prima Says:

    Hi TTS

    A lot of things have been happening in my life. I already told you that Joseph Prince was instrumental in reviving my spirit some time back although I disagree with many things, I don’t think I could categorise him alongside all those other prosperity or fundamentalist preachers who have never done anything for me. I am happy to give credit where it is due.

    I wish him well and I can say that he definitely seems more eager to help people than most but I honestly feel it eventually ends up being legalistic by the fact that those who follow can’t seem to learn anything outside of their sphere. In the end this causes people to end up very narrow minded and unable to grow past a certain point. The same applies to many other establishments calling themselves christian, so don’t think I am picking on Joseph Prince or New Creation Church in particular. I’ve read some of the replies on this blog and can see that some of the people who object to certain things are actually growing in their faith because they are learning to question everything which is part of “seek and you shall find” so I am happy when I see their progress, even if they don’t have the answers they want just yet. Some of them are going to have a hard time working out their own faith.. but let me encourage you all to not give up, keeping an open mind and be willing to entertain strangers…

    I am unhappy when I see people reply by ” How many sermons did you listen to ” or ” You don’t understand the teaching” or ” You need to listen to more sermons and listen more carefully” … because that is EXACTLY the kind of legalism I am talking about.

  229. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Tell that to the evangelists who preached salvation by faith. They are the ones who spread these blasphemies to get people hooked. The only reason one have to sell his soul for riches is he was fooled into the lie that God wants him poor.

    HOW can we be wealthy if we never LOVE riches?

    I don’t love air. I still breathe them.

  230. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    The problem with you guys is you got your priority wrong. Jesus did not die for you to have another religion and doctrine. He came restore our relationship with our Father in heaven. This relationship is meant to be personal and free from hypocrisy. It has nothing to do with doctrines. Theologians and pastors invented doctrines because they have to make a living out of it. If you choose to worship them, it is your choice but as for me and my household, we follow the Lord.

  231. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hello Prima,

    [You said] “Joseph Prince was instrumental in reviving my spirit some time back although I disagree with many things, I don’t think I could categorise him alongside all those other prosperity or fundamentalist preachers who have never done anything for me.”

    True, Joseph Prince is not all prosperity like Kong Hee is, but neither is Joseph Prince all spiritual. There is no room for balancing the desires of the flesh, eyes and the pride of life (1 John 2:15-17) together with the Kingdom of God. Now that your spirit in the Lord has been revived, don’t you think your next step would be to mature as a Christian and follow the Scriptures more closely, rather than following Man (Joseph Prince in this case)?

    For it says in 2 Timonthy 4:-4 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts (of the eyes and flesh and the pride of life – 1 John 2:16) shall they heap to themselves teachers (e.g. Prosperity teachers), having itching ears (to hear feel good sermons); They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”

    Moreover, New Creation heavily emphasizes on SELF – particularly exemplified in ‘Destined to Reign’, Prince’s new book on how to be prosperous (Before you knock me down, know that I was a NCC member for several years and bought many Joseph Prince’s CDs, so I know exactly what he teaches). The Holy Scriptures preach something contrary to what Joseph Prince teaches. The Scriptures teach us to love God by loving others (e.g. serving the poor and needy) and not thinking of self or one’s life because God takes care of us while we serve the less fortunate (Sources for this : Matthew 22:37, Matthew 6:25-34).

    There is nothing that Prince’s perception of the scriptures (again, exemplified in “Destined to Reign”) offers that the pagans or the fallen man doesn’t want – again, the lust of the flesh, eyes and the pride of life. But there are many Christians, not just from NCC, who, in the name of religion plan on getting what their carnal hearts desire; or, Christians who spend Sundays having their ears tickled by feel good sermons for SELF-edification without demonstrating much love for those in need.

    But I must say that at one time, as a born again “Baby Christian” several years ago, I too was inspired to read the New Testament because of Joseph Prince, to be fair to the man.

    But the more I “matured” as a Christian, the more difficult I found it to follow Prince’s teaching which has too much of an earthly / fleshly / all-about-me focus. As a Christian wanting to mature in the faith, I later found myself gravitating towards churches that consistently make an attempt to focus on matters of deeper spiritual growth on loving God by loving others, sacrificing of self and crucifying the flesh.

    I pray that all prosperity church goers carefully examine their hearts and make a decision to one day graduate from drinking milk to begin consuming solid food (1 Corinthians 3:2).

  232. Test the Spirits Says:

    And I also pray that the Prosperity Pastors who are sincerely trying to find a way to bring new Christians into the fold of our brother/sisterhood, do not have to lure new believers in with Satanic temptations of “Health and Wealth” – in the exact same way Lucifer tempted Jesus with bread and power in Matthew 4:1-11 …

    …instead, I pray that the Prosperity Pastors find a way to bring new believers into the fold by virtue of teaching their flock on how our light, as Christian beacons, ought to shine before others, that new and non believers may see our good deeds, want to become like us Christians and glorify our Father in Heaven. (Matthew 5:14-16)

  233. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    How about your prayer to poverty pastors?

  234. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hi Yeap,

    Poverty Pastors?

    Sure, depends on what kind of Christian you are and the the type of Pastor you choose to follow :
    Option 1) A Carnal / Earthly / Lukewarm Christian who sits at the feet of a Pastor who preaches more on earthly gain (2 Timothy 4:3) ; or,

    Option 2) A Christian who walks with the Spirit and sits at the feet of a Pastor who preaches on storing Treasures in Heaven, not on Earth (as mentioned by Jesus himself Matthew 6:19-21. Would you call Jesus a poverty pastor? If you do, then there is no more basis or reason for discussion is there, my friend?)

    ***

    The riches of this world should not be a concern for true believers in Christ (and this does not apply to the carnal / earthly / lukewarm Christians). Seek first the Kingdom of Heaven and serve the poor and others. As mature and true Christians, that should be the Primary focus and occupation of our minds, while trusting God to give you the wisdom to take care of the earthly matters in your life, which should be secondary or even tertiary.

    It’s more difficult than it sounds to practice that, especially for Baby Christians, who seem to worry more about this life on earth and are more easily drawn into the deceitfulness of wealth which chokes the word, making it unfruitful (Matthew 13:22). Even for myself, in my daily work of handling other people’s money and being surrounded everyday by very worldly people, it isn’t easy to fight the daily temptations of making the things of this world more important than serving God and Others before myself as top priority each day. But I was determined to graduate from drinking milk (Health, Wealth and Christ as the primary focus) to eating solid food (where Christ and Serving Others become the sole purpose) and have never wavered since.

    Yeap, as you mature as a Christian (if that is your objective and I hope it is), you will eventually learn that prosperity should not even cross your mind because you would have discovered by then “the experience of being in need and of having more than enough; To have learned the secret to being content in any and every circumstance, whether full or hungry or whether having plenty or being poor. Philippians 4:12 … Life is so much more than what you think it should be for yourself.

  235. Prima Says:

    TTS

    You did not read my post closely enough. I don’t follow Joseph Prince but I simply gave some credit to him for saying some things in the past that really helped me. If you want to know what it was.. it was actually so simple.. JP preached a sermon one day about “Christ living in us” and on that day I began to believe it more than ever. So simple right? He is not the only person who has ever said something profound that has impacted my life. I used to know a christian sister who often said things that revived me and she was probably not even aware of how much she encouraged me in that time.

    I believe we must all watch and pray! I don’t doubt that many preachers are gifted and able to encourage people The gifts and callings are without repentance Rm 11:29 and Jesus taught us that even religious hypocrites of our day are teaching correct doctrine but we are warned not to follow their example Mt. 23:1,2,3. – we are told to follow what they say but not to do what they do. God can use anyone to bring a message to us. He can even appoint leaders in the church like he did with Judas Iscariot whose wickedness remained undetected to most in the gospel accounts for a very long time. For those of you who don’t know.. Judas betrayed Jesus and was in charge of the money John 13:29 ..

    I am not saying Joseph Prince is wicked but I think something is wrong. Maybe he believes we are all clever enough that we are beyond falling into someone’s trickery.. 1 Cor. 10:12 .. Why does Jesus teach us to pray ” Deliver us from the Evil One”? .. Do we stop praying this as christians? If we are all so clever at doctrine and christian belief.. then why must we pray to ask our Father for help to be delivered from evil men?

  236. Paul Says:

    Amen and Amen, brother!!

    We must pray for those who are sincere and want to do the will of God. We must also pray for those who are not, that the LORD will do what is right with them, in His way, and in His perfect timing.

    Cheers!

    Paul

  237. Paul Says:

    Test the spirits,

    Like Martha and Mary, Jesus desires that all of us sit FIRST and FOREMOST at His feet, to worship Him in the Spirit and to worship Him in truth; i do not believe it is the will of God for anyone to sit before any man or woman and learn spiritual truth from them (maybe 10 per cent), before we learn from Jesus. With our understanding and heart touched by Jesus often enough and thoroughly enough, i believe the Spirit of Christ will be manifested in us and by such power, we will directly, indirectly, and even unconsciously be ‘drawing’ others to the Source of our joy, comfort, peace, and true prosperity.

    Cheers!

    Paul

  238. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hello Prima,

    My mistake, I misunderstood what you wrote.

    Agreed, God can use anyone (whether a false teacher / a teacher who teaches correct doctrine but does not practice what he preaches / a teacher who teaches and practices correct doctrine) to bring a Godly message to us.

    True, that God turns all things for good for those who live Him (◄ Romans 8:28).

    Though, it also says to :

    – Avoid false teachers (◄ Romans 16:17 – I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.)

    – Avoid Christians who have a form of godliness but have no fruits of the Spirit to show (i.e. ◄ 2 Timothy 3 – People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.)

    And even if sin did abound with Judas, would you feel comfortable listening at the feet of Judas’s teaching if you were living in Jerusalem at that time? I would imagine fleeing from Judas and running to Peter, for though “Silver or gold he did not have, but what he had – the power to help us walk in strength and joyfully in Christ – he would give to us” (◄ Acts 3:6), even in the midst of persecution, pain and suffering. So let’s choose our teachers wisely because it will affect our thoughts, behavior, life and final destiny.

  239. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hello Paul.

    True, I know … Joseph Prince always tells us to be always like Mary because Jesus desires that all of us sit first and foremost at His feet.

    But may I point out what Joseph Prince does not teach – and that is that most Baby Christians would just “sit” without ever “walking in the Spirit”, never maturing from a Baby Christian who drinks milk to a mature Christian eating solid food (◄1 Corinthians 3:2)

    It comes back to what I said earlier – some Baby Christians never graduate from drinking milk (Health, Wealth and Christ as the primary focus) to eating solid food (where Christ and Serving Others become the sole purpose).

    As I mentioned before (as pjac00) earlier in this blog :

    In essence, Joseph Prince’s teaching will be good for :
    a) The new believer
    b) The born again Christian
    c) The Christian who was yoked by the heavy burden of legalism
    d) Christians who remain Baby Christians who do not mature in the Word (Focus only on SELF and not Others)
    e) Earthly / Carnal Christians (those focused on Earthly Treasures as opposed to Treasures in Heaven)

    His teaching is very weak in the areas of :
    f) Contentment (e.g. 1 Timothy 6:6-7, Philippians 4:11-12)
    g) Being a Slave to Christ and to Serve Others (1 Corinthians 7:22, Matthew 23:11)
    h) Rejoicing in Sanctified Affliction (Romans 5:3-5, 1 Pet. 1:6-7)
    i) Building Treasures in Heaven instead of on Earth (Matthew 6:20)
    j) Giving Alms to the Poor ( Luke 12:33, Luke 16:19-31)

    As Christians who are earnest in “growing” in the faith, we should always seek to mature from milk (parts a – e) to eventually consume solid food (parts f – j) and to never stagnate at being a Baby Christian, “sitting down” and focused only on self.

    Joseph Prince covers part “a to e” very well and it is popular with most Christians because his teaching emphasizes on SELF.

    But there are other teachers who cover parts f – j , who can guide us in our walk towards Godly maturity which emphasizes SELFLESSNESS by virtue of loving God through loving others.

  240. Test the Spirits Says:

    Paul,

    I leave you with this thought in relation to what I just said. You don’t have to respond to me. Just think about it.

    Which do you think is greater in Jesus’s eyes?
    – “Loving God with all your soul, heart, mind and strength; and, Loving one another (in words and in deeds)?” … or …
    – “Sitting at His Feet”, period.

  241. Paul Says:

    Why would any born-again Christian or someone seeking the truth about Jesus or Christianity, deliberately ever choose to listen to Judas?

    Here is the sad testimony of Mr. Iscariot in the Bible:

    “….And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor. (Luke 6:16 KJV),” and “….and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. (Mark 3:19 ESV), and … “….When Judas, His betrayer, saw that [Jesus] was condemned, [Judas was afflicted in mind and troubled for his former folly; and] with remorse [with little more than a selfish dread of the consequences] he brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, [Exod. 21:32.] (Matthew 27:3 AMP).

    “….When Judas, His betrayer, saw that [Jesus] was condemned, [Judas was afflicted in mind and troubled for his former folly; and] with remorse [with little more than a selfish dread of the consequences] he brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, [Exod. 21:32.] And casting the pieces of silver [forward] into the [Holy Place of the sanctuary of the] temple, he departed; and he went off and hanged himself. (Matthew 27:3, 5 AMP).”

    You choose a strange example to suggst, Chee Seng! Why not Thomas; or any of the other twelve disciples, even though they also were ‘failures:’ “….But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled. (Matthew 26:56 KJV).”

    Judas loved money so much he sold Jesus for about $50,000 (thirty pieces of silver in 36 AD). This is a lot of money; but when he had the money in his hand, for some strange reason he was possessed by a spirit of depression and suicide, and stretched his neck with a rope until he died. Whether or not you believe what Judas did happened exactly as the Bible says (in other gospels it says he fell down in a field and his bowels “gushed out”), it doesn’t matter.

    The principle holds that to do injustice to others (the greater the injustice, the more powerful the work of Satan in response, as he will draw VERY CLOSE TO YOU TO POSSESS WHAT IS HIS) is tantamount to injuring, damaging, and ruining what great thing God has done; and you deservedly attract evil to yourself as your reward. As the Bible makes clear, some people escape this life without ever suffering a visible ‘judgement’ for their avarice and greed at the expense of the poor. But it also says, and very clearly,

    “….Treasures of wickedness profit nothing; but righteousness delivereth from death. (Proverbs 10:2 KJV), and “….Wealth profiteth not in the day of wrath; but righteousness delivereth from death. (Proverbs 11:4 KJV).”

    Without righteousness (and this is NOT only the imputed righteousness of Christ, which is the possession of every true Christian by faith at the moment of true conversion, which is NOT merely ‘mental assent’ at the truth about Jesus but a WALK IN THE SPIRIT which SHOWS THE TRUE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT. When i became a believer, it was not because anyone invited me to a service at a church (although that did happen), it was because i was convicted of my sins and came to understand that, if what Jesus taught AND WHAT HIS DISCIPLES TAUGHT is actually true, then i was hopelessly lost to God and headed for dammnation and destruction in Hell, a place of eternal agony and torment (God’s garbage bin). After that conviction, it took some time for me to understand (even vaguely) that Jesus had died to take my place, not so that i would have a happy and rich life but, so that God’s true purposes and will for my life would be accomplished, instead of my wasting my time, money, and energy serving my lusts to the full.

    That is my understanding of the purpose of the Cross — to change the hearts of men so that they WILL choose WILLINGLY to love God, and to seek to accomplish what He wants on this earth, and NOT their own ungodly lusts. By the way, i think it is FINE if God chooses to teach you how to find the gold nuggets and the fishes that you can then sell to make a living. In fact, perhaps even to start your own business (i should know, i have started at least one); but i am fairly sure that my love for God needs to be the PRIORITY in my life at ALL times, for it is a WONDERFUL THING to be in a love relationship with Jesus and with God! It is awesome and beyond description, how joyful and happy i have been and continue to be, because i deeply know that God, who is love itself, loves me to bits! That said, i also know He desires for me to learn to be a “good and faithful servant” which means, learning from Him and those who love Him, in order to be prepared for Heaven properly; and to teach others the same things.

    Cheers!

    Paul

  242. Paul Says:

    Sorry there, Chee Seng…that was a bit of a misdirected post…it was meant for Test The Spirits…anyways…i doubt it will be posting much on this blog for long…not sure why i am on a blog that links NCC directly with “WEALTH CREATION SUPERMARKET.” (Top right of blog). As you all my be aware, this means anyone searching for “NCC and Wealth” will automatically be directed to Yeap Chee Seng’s blog…and maybe think they can learn, through NCC, how to become rich!!

  243. Stephen Says:

    Thank you, Paul for your excellent and heart felt post.

  244. Stephen Says:

    Enough said. Perhaps it is time to close comments for this blog/topic.

  245. Prima Says:

    I believe it is a good thing not to mimic or praise godless people but in some cases there seems to be something else going on. Why did Jesus not avoid Judas Iscariot? In fact, why was he appointed as a leader? Why was he allowed to take care of the money? Why did all the disciples think that they were going to betray Jesus when it was actually Judas who was doing it? Why did they not know? Why have bible translators hidden the fact that Judas/Judah and Jude are the same name? The book of Jude for example used to be called the book of Judas. Judas/Judah meaning “praise” Similarly the book of James used to be called the book of Jacobus/Jacob
    Why did Jesus pray for some and not for for Judas? So is it right to pray for false prophets if you know they are false? Reading Mathew 13:29 someone was told NOT to separate the good from the bad at that point.. Why?

    Why is it that certain people often talk about Acts Ch.2 citing the power of the Holy Spirit and prophecy but fail to reveal that on that day there was a revelation about Judas Iscariot too?

    Why is it that Jesus does not always answer questions immediately like we would in modern day eduction where everything can be explained on the spot? e.g. I desire mercy, not sacrifice – Go and find out what this means” .. So why do people think that they can always give immediate answers to questions when the answer actually cannot be given without the hearer seeking and participating in something.

  246. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Why? The fun has barely begun.

  247. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Anyone who has common sense and honest will want to be rich. The next question is, rich by whose way? God or devil? Prosperity is a relevant topic to everyone including Christians. Where should Christians go to learn it? Churches or the world?

  248. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    This is another example of bad comparison. Judas betrayed Jesus for money. Therefore anyone who desires for more money is a Jesus betrayer.

    What if Judas also love to eat fish? Those who love to eat fish must also be betrayers of Jesus?

  249. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Anyone who is not concerned with the riches in this world is selfish. Having riches beyond our needs gives us choices. We can choose to use them to help the poor. Without it, we are spared from having to make this choice. Therefore, a rich man may or may not be a selfish man but a man who is poor by choice is intentionally selfish.

  250. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Wealth Creation Supermarket is my attempt to get into internet marketing. Unfortunately I failed.

  251. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Put it this way. If God has to rely on false teachers to get people to be interested to read the Bible and seek the truth, then what are true teachers for? Are they sleeping in their job?

  252. Prima Says:

    Prima

    Hey YCS. I don’t believe that having money makes all people necessarily bad. I even think that we all love money to some extent. Jesus asked Peter ” Do you love me MORE than these” .. meaning his “catch” which he obviously loved but Jesus asked him “Do you love me MORE?” .. and Jesus’s request of Peter was “Feed my Sheep”

    What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and yet lose his own soul? . Jesus never said its impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.. he said its easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle and he added “With God all things are possible”
    Have people ever considered that having more of a “catch” could be a test to see whether or not you love God more than your catch? If someone says that they love God more than money and they are telling lies.. well, the only way to prove thats true is to allow that person to have more money. Have you considered that people who come into more money are also coming into more temptation?

    Pr. 11:28 As for Jesus example YES he was rich but he certainly did rely on his riches .. his faith was in God

    who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,

  253. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    With God all things are possible. It is possible to live a prosperous life and go to heaven.

    If you choose to be poor in order to avoid temptations, you are being selfish and irresponsible.

    Imagine this scenario: Look if I am rich, I will have the means to save hundreds of people from starvation. But being rich also brings in more temptation. So, I decided not to be rich because I don’t want to have more temptations. How about the hundreds of people I can potentially save? To hell with them.

  254. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hello Yeap,

    You seek wealth to help others, true? You did imply that several times on wanting to be blessed so that you can be a blessing onto others. Especially in your recent hypothetical statement “if I am rich, I will have the means to save hundreds of people from starvation.”, which does reflect your subconscious desire, which I commend.

    However, you do not need to be rich to :
    – Give extra to that poor old auntie selling tissue paper to you
    – Give extra to that beggar and even pay the hawker center nearby to give him food each day
    – Give your time to the unfortunate and needy (more difficult to do than to pay your way through)

    Have you ever done any 1 of the above CONSISTENTLY? Remember, you don’t have to be rich to do any of the above 3 consistently.

    If not, then how can you be given greater responsibilities if you are not using what little you have NOW to start helping the unfortunate? For it says in Luke 16:10 “If you are faithful in little things, you will be faithful in large ones. But if you are dishonest in little things, you won’t be honest with greater responsibilities.

    You don’t have to justify your good acts to me.

    Just ask yourself if you are already doing good NOW with what little you have for those who have less than you (there are many very poor in Singapore). If NO (you are not doing anything consistent for the poor now), then please do not espouse how there is nothing wrong being prosperous Christians because it smells of hypocrisy. If YES (you are already doing good for the poor consistently right now), then perhaps you will be given greater blessings to be a blessing onto others one day.

    Only you will know the truth. But from what I see from your blogs, there is little mention of any consistent charitable acts to do for the poor with what you already have.

  255. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I have no intention to justify anything to you. I said before. More money means more choice. A rich man can decide on being generous or selfish.

    However, a poor by choice man is selfish.

  256. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    The bottom line is, a poor by choice man is selfish and irresponsible.

  257. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hello Yeap,

    I must commend you for your willingness for open debate on your own blog. I will give you credit where it is due. This is most rare, especially in a politically controlled environment like Singapore.

    You mentioned – “The bottom line as being poor by choice is selfish and irresponsible.”

    I will show you why your motives for being rich is selfish and not pure, which is why God may not bless you with wealth because the depths of your heart may not be aligned with His will (although I hope that God does bless you nevertheless).

    To be Rich for ONESELF in order to Give to Others :
    – “Being poor by choice is selfish and irresponsible”, as you mentioned, comes from someone who intends to be rich for ONESELF as the primary purpose, while being generous to others is secondary to your primary purpose of getting rich mostly for yourself. Why? Read on.

    To be Poor in order to Give to Others :
    – Wouldn’t this 98 year old man (see video below) prove your case wrong?
    – This old man is POOR BY CHOICE, yet is able to give more than those who are rich.
    – He sold his home to give to the church for renovations and orphanages in his area
    – Lives on the EUR 70 pension he gets from the government each month for himself
    – Then he collects all the money he begs for each day (around EUR 100-150 per day) and gives it to both the church and orphanages in his area, when he clearly could have kept the EUR 100-150 each day for himself.
    – Clearly, this old beggar does not intend to be rich for ONESELF and God blesses him to be able to give the largest amount (EUR 40,000 each year) to his church and orphanages, while businessmen and politicians in his country give a paltry EUR 2,000 – EUR 2,800 each year.
    – New Creation Church and those who subscribe to materialism and earthly gain (rather than focusing on storing Treasures in Heaven – Matthew 6:19-21) on the pretext of being “noble and charitable” believe you have to be rich and healthy to be a blessing onto others. << Clearly, this 98 year old beggar puts New Creation and its members to shame because he is POOR, and NOT IN GREAT HEALTH, yet is STILL a blessing onto others.

    This video (can only be watched on PC, not mobile)

    This video proves that this kind of thinking – where "You have to be Healthy and Wealthy to be a blessing onto others" – is based on selfish motives and intent. Carry on down this path and God may likely not bless you the way you think you ought to be blessed. Examine and test yourself (2 Corinthians 13:5).

    Health and Wealth are the very same temptations Lucifer engaged Jesus with. Grab some Bread, you need to be whole. Bow before me, these nations can be yours (Matthew 4:1-11). Bread for Health, Power for Wealth.

  258. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hi again Yeap,

    Here is also proof that being HEALTHY and WEALTHY on earth (rather than focusing on storing Treasures in Heaven – Matthew 6:19-21) to be a blessing onto others on the pretext of being “noble and charitable” comes only from selfish motives.

    Another example, of a sick man who blesses the healthy with his dedication to the Lord, despite his physical condition. Blessing the healthy despite being sick, he is in fact storing Treasures in Heaven.

    This video (can only be watched on PC, not mobile)

    What this sick man lacks in health and money, he blesses and inspires the rich and healthy with his faith in God, despite his calamity, and hence, brings glory to God and stores his Treasures in Heaven.

    “Rich and Healthy” to be a blessing onto others? You and New Creation type thinking are clearly wrong and it comes from a place of selfishness under the guise of being noble and charitable.

  259. Test the Spirits Says:

    May I leave you with Jesus’s bottom line :

    Your bottom line – The bottom line as being poor by choice is selfish and irresponsible.

    Jesus’s bottom line – “Take no thought for your life… (Matthew 6:25-34) and … “give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.” (Luke 12:33).

    There is more, but clearly, Im only giving you what is relevant to your belief.

  260. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Learn to be responsible.

  261. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Being poor and sick helps no one.

  262. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Most Christians have common sense.

  263. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    What do you expect Lucifer to tempt Jesus with? Poverty and sickness? Maybe Lucifer knew something you don’t – Jesus is not a pervert.

  264. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    By the way most Christians regardless of churches they attend do not choose to be sick and poor. Why? They are not perverts. The least you can contribute when you are rich and healthy is you do not waste the state’s resources on medical bills.

  265. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Here is how I expose your hypocrisy. I dare you to follow his example. I am willing to receive all your money. Do you dare to give?

    There are few people who defend poverty and yet do not dare to give their money away. This is hypocrisy.

  266. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I dare you to follow his example.

  267. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hello Yeap,

    Looks like I struck a nerve there, but it is in the spirit of giving you truth from the holy scriptures, not ill-will.

    The objective of being a mature and true Christian is to obey God’s commandments – essentially to love God by loving one another. How can we do that as relatively wealthy Singaporeans? By giving alms and spending time with those in need and there are many in need in the suburbs of Singapore. It is true, it is difficult to sell all one has now and to give everything to the poor, even though this is what Jesus asked us to do at the Sermon on the Mount (◄ Luke 12:33). But we can start by doing our part each day, giving more and more over time and ultimately giving all we have, which should be the DIRECTION all mature Christians can take, as commanded by Jesus himself, that all true Christians who follow the Scriptures should be heading towards to; and, eventually giving most away (◄ Mark 10:29). If one’s faith is strong, one will do it when young. If one’s faith is weaker, one can do it later in life but will still eventually give most away. But that is the direction mature Christians should all be heading towards to.

    It’s the same for sin. We are all sinners regardless. But giving birth to Fruits of the Spirit – love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (◄ Galatians 5:22-23), difficult as this is to accomplish, the Narrow Gate is what mature Christians should all strive towards to (◄ Luke 13:24), instead of indulging in Fruits of the Flesh – including fits of rage and selfish ambition (◄ Galatians 5:19-21).

    (I say the above not to Carnal / Earthly / Lukewarm Christians because these kinds of Christians will go all out to defend what their ears want to hear – God wants all of us to be exceedingly rich and healthy – and do not have any desire to study the bible carefully. I am referring only to the Christians who want to mature from drinking milk to solid food ◄ Hebrews 5:12)

    You mentioned using Christianity as a “tool” to accomplish your earthly desires of the eyes, flesh and pride of life even when it is clear in the bible we are not to “love the world or the things in the world” (◄1 John 2:15-17). Moreover, you did mention that “Salvation is earthly prosperity”. I do not know even where to begin for someone with this kind of mindset on using Christ to be his lucky charm to fulfill his own earthly ambitions. You have created an entirely new Jesus for yourself that is not scriptural and are self deceived because clearly, you have only listened to sermons that suit your desires without ever really reading the bible (◄ 2 Timothy 4:3).

    In fact, brother Yeap, the bible does talk about people with this kind of Prosperity belief – It says “they are conceited and understand nothing … who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.(◄ 1 Timothy 6:4-6)

    Take a second to think about that verse above – 1 Timothy 6:4-6, brother Yeap. I say this for your benefit. And if you disagree, let others who read this think about that for a second.

    Let me close by saying that we each have a different earthly calling in terms of our professions – Engineer, Banker, Teacher, Waiter, Business Owner, etc. But for those who want to mature as Christians and walk in the Spirit (instead of walking in the Flesh), then as true believers, we must work towards the direction of being a Servant to all (◄ Matt.23.11). To do our part for the needy NOW. If we can’t do it all NOW, then we do more and more for the needy each and every day as we purposefully grow in the faith, and; ultimately give away everything away as Jesus commanded at the Sermon on the Mount (◄ Luke 12:33).

  268. Paul Says:

    Hi Stephen,

    God bless you for your kind words. I agree with Chee Seng that logically, being poor and sick in this world “helps no-one” if you are only thinking about it from a “logical” perspective. But God, and Jesus, are not always “logical” to us because our minds are not INFINITE. Astronomers recently attempted to measure the size of the universe (not just the Milky Way galaxy, for example where we are situated; but everything ‘visible’ to the Hubble Space Telescope. Their conclusion was that the measurable universe is approximately 1,800,000 light years across, or, approximately, 5,878,625,369,813.86 miles across, although they added that the borders of the actual known universe were unknown (they could not measure the ‘ends,’ which are expanding.

    I think the first number is ‘quadrillion’ (five thousand trillion); but i am not sure…

    In any case…i wish Mr. Yeap Chee Seng would acknowledge God, and acknowledge Jesus, and His teaching that we are to seek to do what we can to love our neighbour; and especially, to love the poor in deed and in truth; but that, to love riches for their own sake is ungodly and evil. Mind you, i will admit that since i have been poor and even homeless in my life (for six months i slept in parks and etc in London, UK), i agree that it is not always pleasant to be in need. But God is (obviously) as the Word says, “greater than our hearts” and in Him, as Jesus said, we will find that in a relationship with Him, we have eternal life: “….For all those who reject the Son also reject the Father; those who accept the Son have the Father also.” (1 John 2:23 GNT).

    Sometimes in this life, maybe we will be poor. Maybe at other times we will be rich (i mean in material terms). It is definitely not Christian to seek to be poor in order to more ‘holy’ or to be more ‘righteous;’ and i think Mr. Yeap Chee Seng is making some good comments by clarifying that SOME people indeed are hypocrites, who believe that God actually WANTS them to choose to be poor so that He can more effectively use them or bless them or make them more righteous…when in fact, in reality, perhaps He has given them many opportunities to find good jobs, to start a business that prospers; or to earn a good return by selling a property or whatever.

    I think the point is not that we are wealthy or poor in this short existence…but that, if God has prospered us, it is our DUTY and PRIVILEGE to love the poor and to serve them, regardless–because in so doing (let’s not forget, preaching the gospel to them!) we actually will grow in our own humility, teachability, love for God, and in so many ways because we will identify with Christ.

    Yeap Chee Seng, thank you for making this blog; but, for the love of God, please will you remove the awful comments you have posted in 2010 and in other years, where it is clear that you call yourself a believer but state that you love money and want to have more than one can imagine (or to that effect). It shames Christ for you to say you love money and apparently hate to give to anyone in need, because you may indeed become wealthy; but you seem to be missing the point entirely that happiness and true prosperity comes from understanding who Jesus is, what He did for us who would without Him choose lives of sin; and last but not least, from enjoying a growing relationship of love with Him that is eternal.

    Hope this helps others on this blog to understand and worship Jesus in Spirit and truth, and to learn how to give as God chooses; to learn to be responsible and understand we all must needs give account to Him on the day we die.

    Cheers!

    Paul

  269. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hello Paul,

    You nailed it on the head.

    People of this world (especially die hard New Creation goers) will assume being poor and sick in this world “helps no-one” because it “sounds logical”. But God, and Jesus, and People “who are in this world but not of this world” will know that “God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.” (◄ 1 Corinthians 1:27).

    The 2 videos above on Dobri Dobrev (the 98 year old beggar who blesses the rich) and Garwin Dobbins (the sick man who blesses the healthy) clearly refutes the “you can’t be sick and poor to bless others” type thinking that Prosperity Church goers subscribe to with a vengeance.

    You used to be homeless, brother Paul? Take heart. Even this homeless beggar, here in this following video, gives praise to Yahwei (whom he calls “Jah”), which serves as an inspiration and reminder to everyone who has a home and does not need to beg, that “godliness with contentment is great.” (◄ 1 Timothy 6:6)

    This is what being a mature Christian is about – A homeless beggar, yet one who gives praise to our Father in Heaven. An inspiring reminder to everyone who has a home and does not need to beg, that “godliness with contentment is great.” (◄ 1 Timothy 6:6)

    Not the type of Christian who believes God wants us all exceedingly rich and healthy. For again, it says in the good book that these people who believe as such “are conceited and understand nothing … who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.(◄ 1 Timothy 6:4-6)

  270. Paul Says:

    Hi Yeap,

    Thanks for your great comment recently that Jesus did not die to give us a religion; but to restore our relationship with the Father. That is absolutely true! Great comment!

    I think you’re just pulling my leg here about Judas, right? Obviously, choosing to sell Jesus (the Son of God, and the creator of all things known and unknown, including all the universes, all human beings who ever lived, etc. etc.) for some money, cannot really be compared to someone having a taste for Cod, now, can it?

    Are you just trying to get a rise (a quick response) out of me? Judas, in the New Testament, was a follower of Jesus for at least three years. However, he could not overcome his love of money; and, when tempted at a particular point in time (perhaps it was a difficult day for him, as his relative had passed away or he had got a bad cold and was facing a big gambling bill, we don’t know) by Satan, he decided he had had enough of Jesus and wanted, not more money; but to be rich ($50,000 is my estimate for 30 pieces of silver in today’s money; but i may be incorrect…perhaps it is $3 million). I think your comparison of loving fish is quite incorrect and not useful. Lovng money enough to sell the “Way, Truth, and the Life” cannot be equated in any way to a mere love of fried fish…

    To answer your implied question, i think the warning of the Bible is that to love anything to the point that you would be willing to sell God for it (or something equally as precious, for which there is no comparison, actually (perhaps your firstborn child at six months), for a few million dollars, is just plainly evil and wicked — and deserving of significant (though not unforgivable) punishment. Many people wittingly, willingly, and unknowingly “sell Jesus” every day, or every so often…when they ‘sell’ the truth, or compromise doing what is right and choose evil; but they, like Judas, can be forgiven. But the point is they need to understand why they are doing wrong; and the true cost of their actions, before they can understand WHY they need to be forgiven…WHAT they are actually doing; and WHERE their bad choices, ultimately, will take them, if they keep doing those evil things and keep “selling Jesus.” For these reasons and others, such an unrighteous man as Judas as a ‘Christian’ disciple, remain in the New Testament even thousands of years after the events happened — to teach us what is the right response to Jesus.

    Cheers!

    Paul

    Sent from my ipad

  271. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Tell that to the preachers, evangelists and missionaries. They made a living by selling Jesus and his salvation plan to the world. Worse, they got paid for it.

  272. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Stop deceiving yourself. Most Christians will never give away everything they have. This include those who quoted Jesus’ command to the rich young ruler.

  273. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hello Yeap,

    a) True, many Christians today (such as the preachers and evangelists you talk about) do not practice what the Bible truly teaches. And that is why many Christians may still end up in hell.

    Read Matthew 7:21-23 ◄- “True and False Disciples. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

    b) You have free choice in the matter of wanting to give alms for the poor. But if you don’t, just remember what happened to the Rich Man and Lazarus.

    Read Luke 16:19-31 ◄ – “The Rich Man and Lazarus. The rich man was wealthy, well respected, was friendly and loved to entertain his friends with parties, loved his family and his 5 brothers, did no physical harm to people, never murdered. Guess what? Jesus said he went straight to hell. What is hell like? Read Luke 16:19-31. It is hot and fiery, and you will suffer from eternal thirst and agony.

    Read also Matthew 25:31-46 ◄- “The Sheep and the Goats … “Then God will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ 44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
    45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

    c) And if you think you can use God as a “tool” to get rich, or that “Salvation is financial prosperity”, think again.

    Read 1 Timothy 6:4-6 ◄- False Teachers and the Love of Money. It speaks about people who think they can use God to get rich. The bible says of these kinds of people that “they are conceited and understand nothing … who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.”

    ***

    And for those whom Jesus have called to become his bride (not those who will go to Hell), the different levels of reward in Heaven will be forthcoming will be based on the kind of deeds you do here on this earth for Jesus himself says in Revelation 22:12 “Look, I am coming soon, bringing my reward with me to repay all people according to their deeds.” Praise be His Name, Amen!

  274. Test the Spirits Says:

    Luke 16:19-31 ◄ “The Rich Man and Lazarus”

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R-rY5XnFn1k

    The rich man was wealthy, well respected, loved to entertain his friends with parties, loved his family and his 5 brothers, did no physical harm to people, never murdered. Guess what? Jesus said he went straight to hell. What is hell like? Read Luke 16:19-31. It is hot and fiery, and you will suffer from eternal thirst and agony.

  275. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Tell that to the rich Christians.

  276. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    You must tell that to the rest of the churches around the world. They don’t know that.

  277. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Basically you are against all churches right?

  278. Paul Says:

    Yeap, what a considered and thoughtful response! May God bless you! May 2014 be a year of great blessing to you, as you grow in your understanding of God, and understand even more, that those of us individually who trust God and not man, and choose to believe and do good and not evil; those of us who do not believe in any doctrine of men but trust only the words of Christ, and depend on the Spirit of God for all things, are the wise ones…the ones who will be saved, and be with God forever in Heaven, regardless of how rich or poor we are in this life.

  279. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hello Yeap,

    Don’t trip. Your one liner arguments have just proven Matthew 7:13 ► which days “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.”

    “… many enter through it.” Yes, the majority will go through the broad gate (not the narrow gate). Join them Yeap, no one is stopping you.

    On the day of judgment, you cannot hide behind that fact that “everyone is doing it”. Each of us are accountable to the one true God and you will be accountable for knowing the important lines from scripture but chose to believe an entirely different gospel, one that suits your love for money (which happens to be the root of all evil). Incidentally, your wrong beliefs, the erroneous state of your heart and your lack of good deeds may be the reason why you have not been financially blessed as much as you would like to (for you, its all about money, money and more money ain’t it?).

    When we run a race, there are only 3 are gold/silver/bronze medalists (the minority) and the rest (the majority) are forgotten. Likewise, it clearly says in the bible to choose whether you want to be like the majority who will enter through the Broad gate into Hell and be forgotten; or, you can choose to be the minority and through the Narrow gate into Heaven. It’s your eternity, your call.

  280. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Seems that your doctrines have been rejected by all churches.

  281. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Sure. At the same time, do you accept the nonsense that the rich will go to hell?

  282. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    You are contradicting yourself. You accuse my state of heart and lack of good deeds have prevented me to get rich.

    Suppose I improve that and got rich. Then what? According to your heresy I will go to hell.

    According to your demonic teaching, I must not do good deeds so that I will not get rich. Then I will not go to hell.

  283. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hello Yeap,

    Peace be with you. You sound angry and defensive but let us be rational here.

    [Yeap] Seems that your doctrines have been rejected by all churches.

    [TTS] Can you even see yourself brother Yeap? You don’t know how ill-informed that sounds because your comments are all based on not having seen enough, like a frog in a well.

    Is “being servant to the Lord and loving one another to love God” rejected by all churches? Absolutely not! True, “being servant to the Lord – His will and not mine” is rejected by the Prosperity Church which encourages you to seek Health, Wealth and Christ combined – not Christ and not Love alone and to let God handle your earthly needs without worry. You will say anything to defend how God wants you rich, when you should be learning instead how to be content (1 Timothy 6:6 – Godliness with contentment is great gain + and Philippians 4:12 – I know the experience of being in need and of having more than enough; I have learned the secret to being content in any and every circumstance, whether full or hungry or whether having PLENTY or being POOR.) Contentment brother Yeap. Most carnal Christians will naturally reject this and you are no exception.

    [Yeap] Do you accept the nonsense that the that the rich will go to hell?

    [TTS] Again, your comments are ill-informed because you’re the type who does not read. I have an inkling you may have had some trouble with Comprehension back in school. In the parable Luke 16:19-31 ► The Rich Man and Lazarus. The rich man was wealthy, well respected, was friendly and loved to entertain his friends with parties, loved his family and his 5 brothers, did no physical harm to people, never murdered … BUT, he did not give to the poor and sick. Guess what… Jesus said he went straight to hell. Oh, but I suppose, brother Yeap, you must subconsciouly think you know better than the Son of Man who is without sin?

    [Yeap] According to your demonic teaching, I must not do good deeds so that I will not get rich. Then I will not go to hell.

    [TTS] Listen to yourself brother Yeap and how silly that sounds, especially in context ot the parabale of the Rich Man and Lazarus mentioned above.

    Also, I will say this just once more for your benefit – 1 Timothy 6:4-6 ►- False Teachers and the Love of Money. It speaks about people who think they can use God to get rich. The bible says of these kinds of people that “they are conceited and understand nothing … who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.”

    You mentioned in your earlier blogs that You and God are one. So what you desire for yourself (wealth and health) is what God desires for you. Oh really? Galatians 5:24 ► says we have to crucify the desires of the flesh while in Matthew 16:24 ► it says we have to carry one’s cross.

    I do agree that it was wrong for the Prosperity Church to have misled you into the 2 layers of earthly promises then make you subject to obey God’s laws (you mentioned this in your blog and I agree with that point). But this act of misleading the flock is for the pastor of that Prosperity Church to answer to God himself. As for you, just know that God’s commandments are “not burdensome” ◄ 1 John 5:3 because loving one another (God’s commandment) truly is not burdensome but frees us. It’s not about money brother Yeap. It’s about love for one another and denying the flesh for it says in 1 John 2:15 ► “Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.”

    Okay brother Yeap? I say this constructively in the spirit of building up one another. It did come across as a little harsh and I apologize for that. Im simply showing you what the Holy Scripture says. If you want to refute, please refute me with Scripture so we have a proper basis of dicusssion.

  284. Paul Says:

    Chee Seng,

    Hi, of course rich people will not, by default, go to Hell. I hope i never gave you that impression? There are quite a few examples or rich and righteous people in the Bible: but they are mostly (?) in the Old Testament. Men like Abraham, Moses, Joseph, David, Saul, Lot and his family, Absalom, Job, etc. i think there are also quite a few examples in the New Testament, such as the Sargeant Major of the Roman Legions (my Dad was a Sargeant Major also — in the later ‘Roman Legions aka the UK forces–unfortunately, he chose to avoid matters of faith and religion until he recovere his senses a few days before he died, and sought to have a place in Heaven). There are people like Saul (later the Apostle Paul) who, as one of the chief leaders of the Pharisees, was likely quite rich. There is Zaccheus, a wealthy tax collector; the Ethiopian Eunuch (riding in a chariot is like First Class travel today; he was probably quite rich); people like Nicodemus, who was undoubtedly a very wealthy man. But, like i said, i think the majority of rich people in the Bible are in the Old Testament.

    In my opinion — and i believe it is a Scriptural one — like pjac00, Test The Spirits; and Stephen, and others who have posted here — it is not (as my wife says) unscriptural to be rich, or to want to have the ability to help others more than you can with your present wealth or income. As you have rightly said, Chee Seng, there is nothing at all wrong with desiring to be able to help others, by having more capacity to do so. But, in my opinion, and i think this is what most sincere Christians believe, putting those desires into practice, does not always necessarily equate directly, to requiring more money or wealth. From the examples Jesus gave in His illustrations; and from the lives of the disciples who later became apostles; and from the numerous biographies and Christian books from our modern period, that I have read (Peter Cartwright; George Mueller; C. G. Bevington (what a book! what a testimony!), Oswald J. Smith; Smith Wigglesworth; DL Moody; Charles Spurgeon; John and Charles Wesley; Bilquis Sheikh; Charles Grandison Finney; Freddie Sun; Francis Chan, and many, many others, it seems to me that God is concerned that as His children, we provide a witness to the world of our faith and works that will lead those who do not know God back to Him.

    As Christians, we cannot afford to become trapped again in the ‘muck’ of this world, its passing lusts and passions and fads; the sins ‘which so easily beset us;’ and of course, its love of man-centered philosophies, its love of stature, class, power; and the love of money. As the Word says,

    “….With the Lord’s authority I say this: Live no longer as the Gentiles do, for they are hopelessly confused. Their minds are full of darkness; they wander far from the life God gives because they have closed their minds and hardened their hearts against him. They have no sense of shame. They live for lustful pleasure and eagerly practice every kind of impurity. But that isn’t what you learned about Christ. Since you have heard about Jesus and have learned the truth that comes from him, throw off your old sinful nature and your former way of life, which is corrupted by lust and deception. Instead, let the Spirit renew your thoughts and attitudes. Put on your new nature, created to be like God—truly righteous and holy.” (Ephesians 4:17-24 NLT)

    If we do become trapped in chasing after the things of the world, and i think riches clearly fits that description, and allow our hearts to become consumed by trivial and also evil addictions, hobbies, past-times (nothing wrong with watching movies; but is it XXX-rated? Nothing wrong with playing cards; but are you gambling your life savings on those games of entertainment? Nothing wrong with eating and drinking and sleeping and sleeping with someone; but are you doing all these things ‘to the glory of God the Father, and our Lord, Jesus Christ’? Obviously, there are some things which must be excepted as outside God’s will — not only for you as a Christian; but even in the general plan of God for his creation.

    So (i apologise for the long answer!) while as Christians, we cannot avoid struggling with sin, with addictions, with lusts and desires we have in these temples of God which are mere temporal clay that has an innate desire to rebel against the Spirit, it doesn’t mean that we must forever admit we can never walk as Jesus Christ walked on this earth. If it were true that this is impossible, we would not be admonished and instructed by Paul and other Christians in the New Testament (and millions of Christians whose lives are not in the NT) to seek to please God by submitting our bodies as “…a living sacrifice.” I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. (Romans 12:1 KJV)

    I have been a believer in Jesus for some few decades, and i will be the first to admit that sometimes it is not easy or simple to answer people who feel God is hard; or unforgiving; or unloving towards mankind. But believe me, i do not think for a moment that the answer to our own weaknesses or sinful desires is to get rich; or to seek to be rich! (many rich people are not happy; but i think the ones in particular who are not happy or content are those for whom being rich, and having wealth, is for them a worthy goal in and of itself–even to the point where they would abandon their morals, abandon any desire to seek God or to love God, once they got their wealth. I think, if we are honest as Christians, it is THESE souls in particular whom Jesus taught about and warned us not to follow as an example.

    For myself, i believe that i need to be happy and content regardless of what i have or do not have — because my true happiness is found in a good relationship with my Creator and friend who loves me more than i can imagine(!)…true happiness and joy (as Jesus clearly taught) can NEVER come from having more than you can ever possibly use or want; but from walking with God in this life, and seeing with His eyes and the eyes of His heart; and showing love to others in the same measure and in the same ways that He would do (i.e. the Jesus who is living in you — if you’re “in the faith”), i.e.

    “….to whom God wanted to make known what is the glorious wealth of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory….” (Colossians 1:27 KJV).

    Whoever reads this, thank you for your patience! May the LORD bless your life in every way, far above and beyond what you can imagine, in all riches and blessings …so that you can be rich towards God, and towards others, and know how much you are loved by Him!

    Paul

  285. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    You are really confused boy. Just turn to Jesus and you are fine. No need to go through all those rubbish. Think of God as a loving father. Will a good father wants his children to be poor and sick? Of course being rich has its own temptations but so what? Which father will force his children not to be successful because some successful people are addicted to drugs?

    The bottom line is God expects us to trust him and use our brains. No one will go to hell for working hard and result in getting rich. Will God want us to give? Yes but he wants us to give cheerfully. Do you know what it means? It means giving because you want to not because you have been blackmailed by hell.

    I hope you will be able to see the folly of your heresy and turn to Jesus.

  286. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Again, you perceived wrongly. My advice to Paul is also applicable to you.

  287. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hello Yeap,

    It’s clear that it’s you who are confused. Read your own blogs and examine your own heart, clearly expressed in your own blogs.

    You are most certainly not turning to Jesus as both your means and your final destination.

    You are turning to $$$ in the hope that Jesus would bless you with $$$.

    Money is your Alpha and your Omega.

  288. Test the Spirits Says:

    You also mentioned you are using Christ as “a tool”.

    Wow, I’ve never heard of anyone reducing Christ into an instrument to achieve his ends.

    I reiterate that Money is your Alpha and your Omega.

  289. Paul Says:
    The true history of the world, the meaning of money; what is the real purpose of those dollars in your pocket or bank account. Chee Seng, if you have not taken anything else i have daid very eriously, PLEASE read this and BELIEVE it! The truth shall make you free. I apologise for the length of this post; but this information is essential reading for EVERYONE on this planet to read! Here is the reason for our constant need for money…the reason for NOT being truly free (even as Christians); because of the slavery to debt that runs the entire world: THE HISTORY OF LAWFUL GOLD AND SILVER LEGAL TENDER AND THE DEBT BROUGHT ON BY UNLAWFUL FIAT PAPER MONEY “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.” (Thomas Jefferson) “Governments never do anything by accident; if government does something you can bet it was carefully planned.” (Franklin D. Roosevelt) “The high office of President has been used to format a plot to destroy the American’s freedom, and before I leave office I must inform the citizen of his plight.” (John F. Kennedy at Columbia University, 10 days before his assassination) This country, which was founded on Godly principles, finds itself having some perplexing problems. One of which, is a reported four trillion dollars debt, this debt is actually closer to twelve trillion dollars, that’s a twelve and twelve zeros. “If ever again our nation stumbles upon unfunded paper, it shall surely be like death to our body politic. This country will crash.” (George Washington) How did this country get so far in debt, is it the Americans’ fault, the government’s fault, or is it possible that there are other forces at work behind the scenes, causing the manipulation of the currencies of the world? For sure the ultimate blame rests with the people of America. The responsibility of freedom is secured by individuals and can only be given away individually, the minority cannot relinquish the rights for the majority. Thomas Jefferson said: “If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something it cannot be.” God’s Holy Word says in Hosea 4:6: “My people are destroyed by a lack of knowledge.” Can a country that murders its children through government-sponsored abortion expect to prosper, or even survive? Can a nation escape God’s judgment while murdering its children and allowing, even promoting, homosexuality, drug abuse, usury, and the blatant violation of its people by government? The Word of God and history prove this cannot occur without the physical destruction of its government and its people for allowing the violation of God’s Laws. Here is what the Lord says about the violation of His laws: “Woe to them, because they have strayed from me! Destruction to them, because they have rebelled against me! I long to redeem them but they speak lies against me. They do not cry out to me from their hearts but wail upon their beds. They gather together for grain and new wine but turn away from me. I trained them and strengthened them, but they plot evil against me. They do not turn to the Most High; they are like a faulty bow. Their leaders will fall by the sword because of their insolent words. For this they will be ridiculed in the land of Egypt. Put the trumpet to your lips! An eagle is over the house of the LORD because the people have broken my covenant and rebelled against my law. Israel cries out to me, ‘O our God, we acknowledge you!’ But Israel has rejected what is good; an enemy will pursue him. They set up kings without my consent; they choose princes without my approval. With their silver and gold they make idols for themselves to their own destruction” (Hosea 7:13-8:4). How do you destroy a country without firing a shot and without destroying it’s infrastructure? By controlling its money, manipulating inflation and using non-redeemable paper money instead of gold and silver. Here is what the Lord says about paper money: “The LORD detests differing weights, and dishonest scales do not please him” (Proverbs 20:23). Here is a quote from John Adams: “I am firmly of the opinion that there never was a paper pound, a paper dollar, or a paper promise of any kind, that ever yet obtained a general currency [as money] but by force or fraud, generally by both.” Also, a quote from Count Destutt de Tracy: “A theft of greater magnitude and still more ruinous, is the making of paper money; it is greater because in this money there is absolutely no real value; it is more ruinous because by its gradual depreciation during the time of its existence, it produces the effect which would be proration of the coins. All those iniquities are founded on the false idea the money is but a sign.” I’m going to show you some examples in our nation’s history, of how we have been conquered and enslaved. By the time the Revolutionary War was over the United States government could not pay its war debts, altogether Congress printed two hundred million dollars in paper currency just to operate the government. In a short time they had to borrow money just to pay the interest; does this sound familiar? William Davie, who was a delegate from North Carolina [1787] said: “Can our general government recur to the ordinary expedient of loans? During the late war, large sums were advanced to us by foreign states and individuals. Congress has not been enabled to pay even the interest of these debts, with honor and punctuality. The requisitions made on the states have been every where unproductive, and some of them have not paid a stiver. . . .Many of the individuals who lent us money in the hour of our distress, are now reduced to indigence in consequence of our delinquency. So low and hopeless are the finances of the United States, that, the year before last, Congress was obliged to borrow money even to pay the interest of the principal which we had borrowed before. This wretched resource of turning interest into principal, is the most humiliating and disgraceful measure that a nation could take, and approximates with rapidity to absolute ruin.” After the Revolutionary War, the military almost rebelled, and would have if it had not been for the pleadings of George Washington. In 1787, Shay’s Rebellion broke out as a result of the financial woes in this country. This caused a great rift between government and the people. Congress decided that the Articles of the Confederation were not sufficient and that a constitution must be written to protect the government and allow trade between the States and other countries. Only then would Congress be able to provide protection for the government and the States, and only then would they, through this commercial enterprise, be able to pay it’s debts. However, the forefathers made a big mistake by allowing the international bankers to operate in this country with their foreign interests unchecked. Whoever controls the money of the world controls the world. Here are a few quotes: “Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce.” (Paul Warburg, drafter of the Federal Reserve Act) “Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation and I care not who makes its laws.” (Mayer Amschel Rothschild) “A great industrial Nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the Nation and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world — no longer a Government of free opinion, no longer a government of conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men.” (Woodrow Wilson) “A power over a man’s subsistence amounts to a power over his will.” (Alexander Hamilton) “It is not a matter of what is true that counts, but a matter of what is perceived to be true.” (Henry Kissinger) There are and have been groups of people with this power and goal. These groups have passed down from generation to generation the desire to control and rule the world. Just to name a few of whom I’m sure you’ve heard — Rothschild, Morgan and Rockefeller. In order for these groups to implement their plan they have used the secret societies such as, Jesuits, Free Masonry and the Illuminati. The people of this country thought we won the Revolutionary War. They were not aware of the forces at work and the covenants made through treaties, and the obligations involved, when using the king’s money. Nor were they aware of the taxation that ensues for using the kings money and the slavery that follows. Here’s what our Lord said about this: “We have had to borrow money to pay the king’s tax on our fields and vineyards. Although we are of the same flesh and blood as our countrymen and though our sons are as good as theirs, yet we have to subject our sons and daughters to slavery. Some of our daughters have already been enslaved, but we are powerless, because our fields and our vineyards belong to others” (Nehemiah 5:4-5). And in I Samuel 8:11-18 He said: “This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day.” “If the American people ever allow the banks to control issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied.” (Thomas Jefferson) Let’s assume we are starting all over again in this country, and up until, now the free and independent people who occupy this country have had their needs met by God Almighty and used barter as a medium of exchange. Now they’re going to introduce private banking and issue money as debt. Let’s say the bank agrees to loan the government one thousand dollars (paper, gold, silver or rocks) and expects ten percent in interest, payable in legal tender as payment for the use this money. Now remember, the only money in existence is the money the bank is now going to create. The bank makes the loan to the government and at the same time the free and sovereign people wish to share the convenience of using this new money rather than barter. The only money in existence is that created by the bank and loaned to the government, and the once free and sovereign people. Where will the ten percent come from to meet the interest on the loan? Government has agreed to meet its obligations with legal tender. The government may borrow more money to pay the interest, or the bank could foreclose on the government’s property. The people have the same problem because they have also borrowed the bank’s money, at ten percent interest, with no possibility of ever repaying the interest because the interest money was never physically created, it is merely a book entry. However, they are unaware that this is a scam and have been taught to trust the government. The great minds in government decide they can repay the interest government owes by raising a direct tax on the income of their once free and sovereign people, making it voluntary while phrasing the tax laws in such a form as to make it appear to be mandatory. The resourceful educated minority learn how this works, able to acquire more money from the other less resourceful people, and repay interest from their surplus. The less resourceful have gotten so poor that they have begun losing their property so the number unable to pay the bank’s usury becomes greater every year. Eventually, because of this use of non-redeemable paper money, the bankers will foreclose on the government and its people. Your whole nation is BANKRUPT. The citizens begin to realize: One, government does not have their best interests at heart. Two, government representatives would permit your enslavement for their personal gain. Three, government has fraudulently obtained your co-operation in the looting of your own money and property. Four, government schools have withheld the knowledge that would have made the fraud impossible. “Those unaware are unaware of being unaware.” (Merrill Jenkins) Are you mad yet? No! Still in denial. The following authorities should overcome your denial:- First, Marriner Eccles, then chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, in testimony before the Banking and Currency Committee of the House of Representatives on the Banking Act of 1935. Mr. Eccles testified: “In purchasing offerings of Government bonds, the banking system as a whole creates new money, or bank deposits. When the banks buy a billion dollars of Government bonds as they are offered — and you have to consider the banking system as a whole, as a unit — the banks credit the deposit account of the Treasury with a billion dollars. And they debit their Government bond account a billion dollars, or actually create, by a bookkeeping entry, a billion dollars.” Second, President Eisenhower’s Secretary of the Treasury Anderson in an interview with U.S. News and World Report on August 31, 1959 was asked: “Do you mean that banks, in buying Government securities, do not lend out their customers’ deposits? That they create the money they use to buy the securities?” Answer (by Secretary Anderson): “That is correct. Banks are different from other lending institutions. When a savings and loan association, an insurance company, or a credit union makes a loan, it lends the very dollar that its customers have previously paid in. But when a bank makes a loan, it simply adds to the borrower’s deposit account in the bank by the amount of the loan. The money is not taken from anyone else’s deposit; it was not previously paid in to the bank by anyone. It’s new money, created by the bank for the use of the borrower.” “We are completely dependent on the commercial Banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the Banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible, but there it is. It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied soon.” (Robert H. Hemphill, Credit Manager of Federal Reserve Bank, Atlanta, Ga.) “The banks — commercial banks and the Federal Reserve — create all the money of this nation and its people pay interest on every dollar of that newly created money. Which means that private banks exercise unconstitutionally, immorally, and ridiculously the power to tax the people. For every newly created dollar dilutes to some extent the value of every other dollar already in circulation.” (Congressman Jerry Voorhis) On top of all that the bankers were able to get Congress to allow them to practice fractional banking. The banks can loan out 98% of the money on deposit, so if you deposited one thousand dollars, the bank could loan out nine hundred and eighty dollars. This is creating money out of thin air, account money, no money has actually been printed yet now out of the 98% available to be loaned out, you now owe more interest and no money has been printed to repay the principle much less the interest. This money can continue to be loaned out until it reaches zero. What a scam! This was a fraud from the beginning because bank-created money was required to repay interest, which was impossible because only the principal was created. Francis Corbin, a delegate from Virginia [1787] said: “The debts due by the United States and how much is due to foreign nations! No part of the principal is paid to those nations; nor has even the interest been paid as honorably and punctually as it ought. Nay, we were obliged to borrow money last year to pay the interest. What! Borrow money to discharge the interest of what was borrowed, and continually augment the amount of the public debt! Such a plan would destroy the richest country on earth.” Here is a example of how the Social Security scam works: Paul, in the year 1940, saves by paying one hundred dollars to the national Social Security Administration. He receives in exchange a claim which is virtually an unconditional government IOU drawn upon future taxpayers. Because government uses this money to meet the interest it owes, and places a IOU in the fund to cover your deposit. It is a tax and a forced loan that is spend ahead of collection so that the contributions of the Peters of 1970 are called upon to meet government obligations to the Pauls of 1940 when they claim upon Social Security. The administrators of 1940 shifted their problems to the administrators of 1970 when they would be either dead or retired. The problem is compounded by the fact that whereas Paul’s one hundred dollars was redeemable in silver, it must now be discharged by inflationary non-redeemable debt [fiat] money. You cannot discharge debt with a debit note, only transfer it to the next generation. Moral breakdown and rejection of godly principles will destroy our once great nation. However we will focus on the destruction resulting from the use of paper money, the weapon of the internationalists. HISTORICAL OVERVIEW OF UNITED STATES BANKING AND PAPER MONEY 1765: Prior to the establishment of the United States, Blackstone said in his commentaries: “If a man counterfeits the King’s money; and if a man brings false money into the realm counterfeit to the money of England, knowing the money to be false.” As to the first branch, counterfeiting the King’s money; this is treason, whether the false money be uttered in payment or not. Also if the King’s own ministers alter the standard of alloy established by law, it is treason.” 1781: George Washington wrote to John Laurens and said: “Experience has demonstrated the impracticability long to maintain a paper credit without funds for its redemption.” APRIL 12, 1782: John Adams negotiated with the Netherlands to receive a loan and recognition for the United States. APRIL 19, 1782: The Netherlands recognized the independence of the United States. JUNE 11, 1782: Dutch bankers agree to lend two million dollars to the United States. OCTOBER 8, 1782: A treaty of commerce and friendship was signed between the United States and the Netherlands. NOVEMBER 30, 1782: A preliminary peace treaty is signed between the United States and England. The most important provisions are the establishment of boundaries and recognition of American independence. All debts due to creditors of either country are accepted as valid debts. FEBRUARY 28, 1785: Britain threatens to break off the treaty because Americans have failed to comply with the treaty, by having paid the debts owed to Britain. JUNE-SEPTEMBER 1785: There is a major depression because of unstable paper money resulting in falling prices. This allowed some of the States to discharge their debts on a basis which was sometimes a thousand to one. 1786: The board of Treasury in 1786 condemned paper currency “the revival of a paper currency and the rage for another experiment in this fallacious medium that has so far prevailed as to enter into the system of revenue of several States”. 1787: During the federal convention, Roger Sherman made the statement that: “no Government has a right to impose on its subjects any foreign currency to be received in payments as money which is not of intrinsic value: unless such Government will assume and undertake to secure and make good to the possessor of such currency the full value which they oblige him to receive it for.” JANUARY 27, 1787: Shays rebellion took place because of financial depression. JANUARY 14, 1790: Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton says the United States should pay its debts at par value, even though many speculators would profit by this. [Alexander Hamilton married into the Rothschild family December 14, 1780, Alexander Hamilton was born Alexander Levine, of Jewish lineage, in St. Croix, the West Indies. After changing his name and his geographical situs, he married Elizabeth Schuyler, the second daughter of Phillip Schuyler, at the bride’s home in Albany, New York. The bride’s mother was Catherine Van Rensselaer, daughter of Colonel John R. Van Rensselaer, who was the son of Hendrik, the grandson of Killiaen, the first partroon. [THE INTIMATE LIFE OF ALEXANDER HAMILTON, by Allan Hamilton 1910] [It has been reported that there are documents in the British museum that prove Alexander Hamilton received payment from the Rothschild’s for his dastardly deeds. Could this payment have been for his involvement in the establishment of a foreign bank in this country, and for convincing Congress to assume the States debts, which would have created a debt obligation binding the United States government and the States to the international bankers?] JUNE 20, 1790: Alexander Hamilton convinces Congress to pass the Assumption Act, under which the federal government is to assume the States debts. DECEMBER 14, 1790: Alexander Hamilton submits a plan for a bank of the United States, mainly as a vehicle for the funding of debts under the Assumption Act and to establish credit. FEBRUARY 25, 1791: The bank of the United States is chartered. MARCH 1-2, 1792: Congress debates the propriety of Alexander Hamilton’s conduct of his office as Secretary of the Treasury. Nothing irregular is discovered. APRIL 2, 1792: Congress passes the Coinage Act, which establishes a mint and prescribes a decimal system of coinage. FEBRUARY 2, 1793: Alexander Hamilton resigns as Secretary of Treasury. JANUARY 24-FEBRUARY 20, 1811: Congress debates renewal of the charter for the Bank of the United States. MARCH 4, 1811: The Bank of the United States is closed permanently. 1812-1815: The War of 1812 breaks out with Britain. DECEMBER 5, 1815: President Madison proposes a second Bank of the United States to succeed the first Bank that failed to be rechartered in 1811. MARCH 14, 1816: Congress creates the second Bank of the United States. JANUARY 7, 1817: The second Bank of the United States is opened. SEPTEMBER 11, 1830: The Anti-Masonic party acquires national status by holding a convention in Philadelphia. DECEMBER 6, 1830: President Andrew Jackson attacks the Bank of the United States. SEPTEMBER 26, 1831: The Anti-Masonic party holds a national convention in Baltimore. MARCH 17, 1832: The Banking Select Committee said: “That the consequences of the present, is that the currency of the United States is bank notes, to the exclusion of the precious metals. The exclusion of gold and silver coins from circulation is a serious defect, which ought not to be tolerated, and which should be speedily remedied. There is not an example on record of the successful issue of a paper currency, and our experiment has been too short and dubious to prove its suitableness as a permanent regulation.” JUNE 11, 1832: A bill to renew the charter of the Bank of the United States is submitted by Congress. JULY 3 1832: The Bank bill is approved. OCTOBER 1832: The Anti-Masonic party backs Andrew Jackson, and he is re-elected. JUNE 1, 1833: The Secretary of Treasury refuses to follow the order of President Jackson to distribute the Bank of United States funds into State banks. SEPTEMBER 18, 1833: President Jackson reads to his cabinet a paper drafted by the Attorney General as to the reasons why the federal deposits should be removed from the Bank of the United States. DECEMBER 26, 1833: Senator Henry Clay offers two resolutions of censure against President Jackson for his plan to remove deposits from the Bank of the United States. MARCH 17, 1834: Representative Gillet, a member of the Banking Select Committee, concurred in the expediency of increasing the circulation of gold coin, arguing that, “under the paper system, banks have broken, and on whom did the loss most severely fall? Upon the poor, who understood little of the condition and credit of banks. The wealthy usually foresaw the evil and protected themselves.” MARCH 28, 1834: The Senate approves the criticizing of President Jackson. APRIL 4, 1834: The House passes four resolutions sustaining the bank policy of the Jackson administration. APRIL 15, 1834: President Jackson makes a formal protest to the Senate concerning its resolution of censure. MAY 7, 1834: The Senate refuses to enter President Jackson’s protest in its journals. DECEMBER 1, 1834: President Jackson declares that the national debt will be paid off JANUARY 1, 1835. JANUARY 30, 1835: There is an attempt to assassinate President Jackson. FEBRUARY 18, 1836: The Bank of the United States charter expires, the Bank receives a charter in Pennsylvania. DECEMBER 5, 1836: President Andrew Jackson said in his message to Congress: “It is apparent from the whole context of the Constitution as well as the history of the times which gave birth to it, that it was the purpose of the Convention to establish a currency consisting of the precious metals. These were adopted by a per-exchange, such as of certain agricultural commodities recognized by the statutes of some States as tender for debts, or the still more pernicious expedient of paper currency.” JANUARY 23, 1840: A bill establishing an Independent Treasury is proposed by Congress. JUNE 30, 1840: The Independent Treasury bill passes the House. JULY 28, 1841: A bill re-establishing a National Bank passes the Senate. AUGUST 13, 1841: The House approves the bill to re-establish the National Bank. AUGUST 13, 1841: The Independent Act of 1840 is repealed. AUGUST 16, 1841: President Tyler vetoes the Bank bill. SEPTEMBER 3, 1841: The Senate approves the second Bank bill for a National Bank under another name. SEPTEMBER 9, 1841: President Tyler vetoes the second Bank bill. AUGUST 6, 1846: The Independent Treasury Act is approved. APRIL 12, 1861: The Civil War starts. AUGUST 5, 1861: Congress passes the first National income tax. AUGUST 21, 1861: The United States issues the first paper currency. FEBRUARY 25, 1863: Congress establishes a National Banking system. 1864: The Coinage Act of 1834 had the purpose of striking a fatal blow at the ability of banks to sustain a circulation of small denomination paper currencies. The invalid conclusion that the legal-tender acts of the Civil War were constitutional because they effected through a paper medium the same type of “debasement”, which no one “ever imagined was taking private property without compensation or without due process of law”. APRIL 14, 1865: A short time after President Lincoln ordered the Lincoln greenbacks to be printed; which would deprive the banks from charging interest on the money they would have printed, President Lincoln was assassinated by John Wilkes Booth. It’s been proven this was a conspiracy because of the other four men who were involved in the assassination, and it has also been established that these men were on the payroll of the Rothschild’s. OCTOBER 31, 1865: The public debt of the United States stands at over seventy dollars per capita. MARCH 18, 1869: Congress passes the public Credit Act to pay the public debt in gold, leaving three hundred million in greenbacks and a bitter debate about redeeming them. July 28, 1868: The Fourteenth Amendment is enacted, which not only created federal citizenship, it also made it illegal for federal citizens to question the federal debt. [clause four 14th Amendment] SEPTEMBER 24, 1869: On this “Black Friday” a financial panic occurs after two stock gamblers, Jay Gould and James Fisk, try to organize a corner on the gold market. The Grant administration dumps four million dollars in gold on the market, the price falls in fifteen minutes from one hundred and sixty two dollars to one hundred and thirty three dollars and many investors are ruined. 1873: The historian, William Graham Sumner explained that: “The popular mind rests on instances like our continental money, as showing the error of paper money where it absolutely perishes. It is thought that, short of this, only alarmists see danger. The story of Austria shows that an irredeemable paper currency is a national calamity of the first magnitude, of which one may indeed find greater or lesser examples, but of which the least is a peremptory warning to statesmen and financiers. It is like a disease in the blood, undermining the Constitution and spreading decay through all the arteries of business. In its measure and according to circumstances it is pernicious, if not fatal.” FEBRUARY 12, 1873: Congress terminates the coinage of silver, because the intrinsic value of bullion exceeds its face value, this Act becomes known as “the crime of 73.” SEPTEMBER 8, 1873: Jay Cooke and Company declares itself bankrupt, this causes a three year depression. APRIL 22, 1874: President Grant vetoes a bill passed by Congress validating the issuance of greenbacks. JUNE 20, 1874: Congress passes a Currency Act fixing the maximum amount of greenbacks in circulation at three hundred and eighty-eight million dollars. JANUARY 14, 1875: Congress passes the Specie Resumption Act, reducing the circulation of greenbacks to three hundred million dollars. AUGUST 19, 1877: In a speech made by the Secretary of Treasury John Sherman, he said: “There is a large class of people who believe that paper can be, and ought to be, made into money without any promise or hope of redemption; that a note should be printed: “This is a dollar,” and be made a legal tender. I regard this as a mild form of lunacy, and have no disposition to debate with men who indulge in such delusions, which have prevailed to some extent, at different times, in all countries, but whose life has been brief, and which have shared the fate of other popular delusions. The Supreme Court only maintained the constitutionality of the legal tender promise to pay a dollar by a divided court, and on the ground that it was issued in the nature of a forced loan, to be redeemed upon the payment of a real dollar; that is, so many grains of silver or gold. I therefore dismiss such wild theories, and speak only to those who are willing to assume, as an axiom, that gold and silver or coined money, have been proven by all human experience to be the best possible standards of value, and that paper money is simply a promise to pay such coined money, and should be made and kept equal to coined money, by being convertible on demand. [emphasis mine] JANUARY 1885: The Treasury surplus was up to five hundred million dollars. JANUARY 17, 1894: The federal gold reserves drop to only sixty million dollars. The federal government offers a bond issue of fifty million dollars to make up gold reserve losses. NOVEMBER 13, 1894: Another federal bond issue of fifty million dollars is offered. Because of poor public response, most of this loan is taken over by New York bankers. JANUARY 6, 1896: The fourth bond issue in three years is floated, this time in public subscription totaling one hundred million dollars, federal treasury reserves are down to seventy nine million dollars which is considered so low as to endanger the continuance of the gold standard. MARCH 14, 1900: Congress passes the Gold Standard Act, under which other forms of money are made redeemable in gold on demand, a gold reserve of one hundred and fifty million dollars is created, and the sale of bonds is authorized when necessary to maintain the reserve. MARCH 13, 1907: A financial panic begins with a sharp drop of the stock market. OCTOBER-NOVEMBER 1907: A run begins on October 23rd on the Knickerbocker Trust Co. that wipes out that bank, many other banks fail, unemployment rises, and food prices soar. Increased bank deposits infused by the United States Treasury restore confidence, supported by loans from such capitalist leaders as J. Pierpont Morgan. MAY 30, 1908: Under the impact of the financial panic of 1907, the Aldrich-Vreeland Currency Act is passed by Congress, it establishes the National Monetary Commission to study banking. JULY 12 1909: Congress passes an amendment to the Constitution authorizing the imposition of a tax on incomes. FEBRUARY 25, 1913: The sixteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States is declared in effect. [This amendment did not confer any new power of taxation on Congress and did not extend the power of taxation to subjects previously exempted. Its whole purpose was to exclude the source from which income tax is a direct tax which must be apportioned among the states, and thus remove the occasion which might otherwise exist for an apportionment. [27th American Jurisprudence, Section 17, pages 317, 318.] “The source of the taxing power is not the 16th Amendment, it is Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.” [Penn Mutual Indemnity Co. v. Commissioner, 32 T.C. 1959, CCH at pg. 659.] December 23, 1913: The Federal Reserve Act is signed, dividing the country into twelve districts, each with a federal reserve bank. The act also provides for a drastic currency based on commercial assets rather than bonded indebtedness, mobilization of bank reserves, public control of the banking system [foreign interest], and decentralization rather than centralization. JULY 28, 1914: World War One begins. OCTOBER 15, 1915: American bankers, organized by J.P. Morgan and Co., agree to lend Great Britain and France five hundred million dollars, the largest loan floated in any country. JULY 11, 1916: The Federal Aid Road Act is signed by President Wilson. The measure provides five million dollars for the use of the States that undertake road building programs, and it establishes a system of highway classification. Almost two hundred and fifty thousand commercial vehicles and more than three million private cars are registered to use public roads. JULY 17, 1916: The Federal Farm Loan Act is passed by Congress. OCTOBER 3, 1916: Congress passes the War Revenue Act, increasing corporate and personal income taxes and establishing excise-profits, and luxury taxes. APRIL 5, 1918: The War Finance Corporation is formed, capitalized at five hundred million dollars to support war industries through loans and bond sales. 1920: Congress abolishes the United States Treasury and establishes the Dept. of Treasury, in the Act of 1920 66th Congress session II ch. 214. APRIL 9-16, 1924: The United States banks loan Germany two hundred million for reparation. NOVEMBER 14, 1925: Because of a severe financial depression in Europe, the United States agrees to a sharp reduction in foreign war debts as well as interest rates on them, but still insists on partial payment. JANUARY-APRIL 1926: War debt agreements are reached between the United States and several European countries, including France, Italy, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Rumina, Estonia and Latvia. In the case of France it is agreed that the four billion dollars owed to the United States banks will be paid over a period of sixty two years. Italy, which owes one billion five hundred million dollars is also to be paid back in sixty two years. MARCH 10, 1928: The United States pays three hundred million dollars to Germany to reimburse them for property taken during World War One. JULY 10, 1929: The new paper currency, only two thirds the size of the old, goes into circulation. OCTOBER 24-28, 1929: The stock market crashes as millions of shares change hands and billions of dollars in value are lost. FEBRUARY 24, 1930: J.P. Morgan and Co. announce that the group formed to halt the market crash on October 24-29, has sold all its shares and is disbanded. DECEMBER 11, 1930: The largest Bank failure in the nations history takes place when the Bank of the United States closes its doors in New York. SEPTEMBER-OCTOBER 1931: The bank panic increases as over eight hundred banks are closed in two months. Individuals start to hoard gold to protect themselves. DECEMBER 8, 1931: The President’s Address message to Congress calls for increased taxation to make up for the deficit of nine hundred and two millon dollars for the year 30-31. JANUARY 22, 1932: The Reconstruction Finance Corporation came into existence with the purpose of loaning money to the banks. FEBRUARY 27, 1932: Congress passes the Glass-Steagall Act, which authorizes the sale of seven hundred and fifty million dollars worth of the government gold supply and allows the Federal Reserve system more leeway in discounting commercial paper. JULY 21, 1932: President Hoover signs the Emergency Relief Act which provides three hundred million dollars in loans to the States and increases the Reconstruction Finance Corporations debt ceiling to three billion dollars to make loans to State and local governments. March 10, 1933: By the continued use of paper money the United States had to be declared bankrupt, which was proven by the bankruptcy procedures that were followed in President Roosevelt’s Executive Orders. President Roosevelt declared the United States bankrupt by Presidential Executive Order, 6073 and the subsequent Executive Orders, 6102, 6111 and 6260. [these documents are still publicly attainable in any federal depository library] MAY 23, 1933: On the House floor, Congressman McFadden brought impeachment charges against many of the Federal Reserve board members, Federal Reserve agents of many States, comptroller of the currency, and several secretaries of the United States Treasury for high crimes and misdemeanors, including the theft of eighty billion dollars from the United States Government and with committing the same thefts in 1929, 1930, 1931, 1932 and 1933 and in the years previous to 1928, amounting to billions of dollars. These charges were remanded to the Judiciary committee for investigation, where these charges were effectively buried and until this day have never been answered. [See Congressional Record pp. 4055-4058 May 23, 1933] JUNE 16, 1933: The National Industrial Recovery Act is passed, this allows private corporations to make their own laws and write their own statutes, as applied to the public. JANUARY 30, 1934: The Gold Reserve Act gives the President the right to change the value of the dollar. The President immediately devalues the dollar to fifty nine cents. JUNE 28, 1934: The Federal Home Association is established, to insure the loans made by banks in building homes. MAY 27, 1935: The United States Supreme Court declares that the National Industrial Recovery Act is unconstitutional. Since the Federal Reserve is a private corporation and passes its own laws; does this not make the Federal Reserve unconstitutional [illegal]? [Schechter Poultry Corp. v. United States, 295 U.S. 495 1934] AUGUST 14, 1935: The Social Security Act [Federal Insurance Contribution Act] becomes law, the American people are told this is a insurance policy. This is actually an agreement between you and the United States government where you have agreed under tort law that you have contributed to the national debt and that you are a wrong doer under the definition of the word contribution, as it is used by the government. [see the word contribution and the words tort feasor in Blacks Law Dictionary 6th ed.] AUGUST 23, 1935: The Banking Act of 1935 is passed, restructuring the federal reserve system to allow for increased control of banking and credit. AUGUST 28, 1935: The Public Utility Act is signed, the United States takes control of the countries utilities. AUGUST 29, 1935: Congress passes the Farm Mortgage Act to offset the Supreme Courts decision against the Federal Farm Bankruptcy Act. JANUARY 4, 1939: President Roosevelt requests one billion three hundred and nineteen million five hundred and fifty eight thousand dollars for defense. JANUARY 5, 1939: President Roosevelt submits a budget of nine billion dollars to Congress. SEPTEMBER 1, 1939: World War Two Begins. JANUARY 3, 1940: President Roosevelt requests one billion eight hundred million dollars for defense. MAY 31, 1940: President Roosevelt requests one billion three hundred million dollars for defense. JUNE 22, 1940: Congress raises the national debt ceiling to a record high of forty nine billion dollars. JANUARY 8, 1941: The Presidents budget calls for a record seventeen billion eight hundred million dollars, of which sixty percent is for defense. MARCH 30, 1941: President Roosevelt approves a measure that raises the ceiling on the public debt to a record sixty five billion dollars. JANUARY 5, 1943: President Roosevelt proposed budget for the fiscal year 1943 is one hundred and eight billion nine hundred and three million dollars. JANUARY 13, 1944: President Roosevelt proposes a budget of one hundred billion dollars for 1944. JULY 28, 1945: The United Nations charter is ratified by the Senate. JANUARY 2, 1950: A report by the United States Dept. of Commerce shows that for the period July 1, 1945 to September 30, 1949, the United States spent almost twenty five billion dollars in foreign aid. Military spending for the same years has been one third of the yearly budget. JULY 19, 1950: President Truman calls for partial mobilization after Korea crosses the 38th parallel and also asks Congress for ten billion dollars for the military. APRIL 30, 1951: President Truman gets fifty seven billion dollars for defense for 1951. JANUARY 21, 1952: The President’s budget calls for expenditures of eighty five billion four hundred and forty four million dollars for the coming fiscal year. Slightly over three fourths of the budget is to spent on “national security”. JUNE 29, 1955: The Federal Aid Highway Act is signed by the President. It authorizes thirty three billion dollars to be spent over the next thirteen years on the highways. JANUARY 16, 1957: A peace time budget of seventy two billion eight hundred and seven million dollars is proposed. JANUARY 13, 1958: The fiscal deficit is up to twelve billion four hundred twenty seven million dollars. AUGUST 7, 1958: President Eisenhower signs into law an appropriations bill for defense in the amount of thirty nine billion six hundred and two million eight hundred and twenty seven thousand dollars. 1961: President Eisenhower allots forty seven billion six hundred and fifty four million dollars for defense. NOVEMBER 28, 1961: President Kennedy “reached the decision that silver metal should gradually be withdrawn from our monetary reserves.” 1963: Six days prior to President John F. Kennedy being assassinated, he ordered the Treasury to print United States Notes to be used as legal tender, a limited amount were printed before his untimely death. This action would have put the Federal Reserve out of business because they would no longer be able to collect interest on the money they would have printed. This would have eventually removed the financial and political control the international bankers had over this country. Ten days prior to his assassination President Kennedy said “The high office of President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American’s freedom, and before I leave office I must inform the citizen of his plight.” NOVEMBER 22, 1963: President John F. Kennedy is assassinated. One of the first acts President Johnson orders is the reversal of the order President Kennedy had made, which had allowed the printing of United States Notes without interest. Was President Kennedy assassinated for the same reasons as President Lincoln? NOVEMBER 26, 1963: Prior to this date the Federal Reserve notes were a promise to pay and were redeemable on demand by the bearer for lawful money. After President Johnson’s order to remove the United States notes, the Federal Reserve issued Federal Reserve notes without the promise to pay to the bearer on demand lawful money. Interestingly, the first fifty million no-promise federal reserve notes were shipped out the same day that President John F. Kennedy was buried. MARCH 8, 1965: The first troops landed in Vietnam. 1967: The deficit is announced to be twenty five billion dollars. JUNE 1968: Marked the first time in United States history that a paper currency, purportedly designated as legal tender, was not directly or indirectly redeemable in silver or gold coin or bullion. SEPTEMBER 30, 1967: President Johnson submits a record budget of one hundred and eighty six billion dollars. JANUARY 29, 1971: President Nixon announces that the deficit is thirty eight billion seven hundred and eighty three million dollars. 1972: President Nixon announces the federal government will share thirty billion dollars with State and local governments. 1974: President Nixon announces a fiscal budget of three hundred and four billion four hundred million dollars. FEBRUARY 3, 1975: President Ford announces a deficit of fifty one billion five hundred million dollars. At the Constitutional Convention Benjamin Franklin felt there was too much preoccupation with salaries. He therefore addressed the Constitutional Convention: “Sir, though we may set out in the beginning with moderate salaries, we shall find that such will not be of long continuance. Reasons will never be wanting for proposed augmentations; and there will always be party for giving more to the ruler, that the rulers may be able to return to give more to them. Hence, as all history informs us, there has been in every State and kingdom a constant kind of warfare between the governing and the governed, the one striving to obtain more for its support, and the other to pay less. And this has alone occasioned great convulsions, actual civil wars, ending either in dethroning of the princes or enslaving the people. Generally, indeed, the ruling power carries its point, and we see the revenues of princes constantly increasing, and we see that they are never satisfied, but always in want of more. The more the people are discontented with the oppression of taxes, the greater need the prince has of money to distribute among his partisans, and pay the troops that are to suppress all resistance, and enable him to plunder at pleasure.” “Sir, the saving of the salaries, that may at first be proposed, is not an object with me. The subsequent mischiefs of proposing them are that I apprehend. And therefore it is that I move the amendment. If it is not seconded or accepted, I must be contented with the satisfaction of having delivered my opinion frankly, and done my duty.” The highly qualified language of Article I8, cl. 2 also repels the clause empowers Congress “To borrow money on the credit of the United States” only. A forced loan, however, implies that the government has no credit in the eyes of reluctant lenders, and that it must compel the latter to part with their money because it can no longer convince them of its ability and intention to repay full value at a future time. Davy Crockett, while serving as a Congressman helped fight a fire one night that broke out in a suburb of Washington. The next morning the Congress voted twenty thousand dollars to assist those whose homes were destroyed. Crockett voted for it. However, when he went home he found himself in deep trouble with one of his constituents named Horatio Bunce. Bunce commended him for the anxiety to help the victims of the fire but scolded him for using other people’s money as “charity.” He challenged Crockett to find where the Constitution allowed Congress to spend one penny of other people’s money for charity. Crockett couldn’t think of any such provision. Crockett returned to Congress and ran into a similar situation. Congress wanted to give a substantial sum to the widow of a distinguished naval officer who had just died. Crockett took the floor and said: “Mr. Speaker, I have as much sympathy as any man in the House, but Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. . . . I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week’s pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks.” Mr. Crockett took his seat and the bill was defeated but none of the wealthy Congressman offered to meet his plea to donate one weeks pay to the widow. A contemporary of the Revolution, Peletiah Webster said: “Paper money polluted the equity of our laws, turned them into engines of oppression, corrupted the justice of our public administration, destroyed the fortunes of thousands who had confidence in it, enervated the trade, husbandry, and manufactures of our country, and went far to destroy the morality of our people.” Bruce A. Budlong, the acting director of the special financing staff of the Department of Treasury said: “The same monetary system that was established on April 2, 1792, is in effect today.” Jefferson strongly opposed a perennial national debt: “The question, whether one generation of men has a right to bind another, is a question of such consequences as not only to merit decision, but place also among the fundamental principles of every government. The course of reflection in which we are immersed here [France] on the elementary principles of society has presented this question to my mind; and that no such obligation can be transmitted, I think very capable of proof. I set out on this ground, which I suppose to be self-evident: that the earth belongs in usufruct to the living; that the dead have neither powers nor rights over it. If [one generation] could charge another with a debt, then the earth would belong to the dead and not to the living generation. Then, no generation can contract debts greater than may be paid during the course of its own existence.” Jefferson said: “I am not among those who fear the people. They, and not the rich, are our dependence for continued freedom. And to preserve their independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people of England are, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, and give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses; and the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they now do, on oatmeal and potatoes; have not time to think, no means of calling the mismanager’s to account; but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow sufferers. This example reads to us the salutary lesson that private fortunes are destroyed by public as well as by private extravagance. And this is the tendency of all human governments. Departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for a second, that second for a third, and so on, till the bulk of the society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery, to have no sensibilities left but for sinning and suffering. Then begins indeed the bellum omnium in omnia which some philosophers, observing it to be so general in this world, have mistaken for the natural instead of the abusive state of man. And the forehorse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression.” Ellsworth said during the Convention: “Thought this a favorable moment to shut and bar the door against paper money. The mischiefs of the various experiments which had been made were now fresh in the public mind, and had excited the disgust of all the respectable part of America. By withholding the power from the new government, more friends of influence would be gained to it money can in no case be necessary. Give the government credit, and other resources will offer. The power may do harm, never good.” Wilson said during the Convention: “It will have a most salutary influence of the credit of the United States to remove the possibility of paper money. This expedient can never succeed whilst its mischiefs are remembered. And as long as it can be resorted to, it will be a bar to her resources.” Butler said during the Convention: “That paper was a legal tender in no country in Europe. He was urgent for disarming the government of such a power.” Today the American economy operates under a monetary system which is completely outside the Constitution. Its fiat money is continually manipulated both in value and in quantity. [THE MAKING OF AMERICA 1985] The definition of fiat money is: “money composed of otherwise essentially valueless things that neither have a commercial use nor constitute a claim against anyone, but do have a special legal qualification. The money is not the material bearing the stamp as authority but the stamp alone.” C.C. Pinckney said during the Convention: “That paper money corrupted the morals of the people; it had diverted them from the paths of honest industry to the ways of ruinous speculation; it had destroyed both public and private credit, and had brought total ruin on numberless widows and orphans.” “I apprehend these general reasoning will be found true with respect to paper money: that experience has shown that, in every state where it has been practiced since the revolution, it always carries the gold and silver out of the country, and impoverishes it.” Sherman said during the Convention: “This was a favorable crisis for crushing paper money. If the consent of the legislature could authorize emissions of it, the friends of paper money would make every exertion to get into the legislature in order to license it.” T. Coleman Andrews served as Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service for nearly three years in the early fifties. Finally he resigned and made the following statement: “The income tax is fulfilling the Marxist prophecy that the surest way to destroy a capitalist society is by steeply graduated taxes on income and heavy levies upon the estates of people when they die. As matters now stand, if our children make the most of their capabilities and training they will have to give most of it to the tax collector and so become slaves of the government. People cannot pull themselves up by their own bootstraps anymore because the tax collector gets the boots and the straps as well. The income tax is bad because it is oppressive to all and discriminates particularly against those people who prove themselves most adept at keeping the wheels of business turning and creating maximum employment and high standard of living for their fellow men. I believe that a better way to raise revenue must be found because I am convinced that the present system is leading us right back to the very tyranny from which those, who established this land of freedom, risked their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to forever free themselves.” The American historian George Bancroft said: “History cannot name a man who has gained enduring honor by causing the issue of paper money. Wherever such paper has been employed, it has in every case thrown upon its authors the burden of exculpation under the plea of pressing necessity. Paper money has no hold, and from its very nature can acquire no hold, on the conscience or affections of the people. It impairs all certainty of possession, and taxes none so heavily as the class who earn their scant possession, by daily labor. It injures the husbandman by a twofold diminution of the exchangeable value of his harvest. It is the favorite of those who seek gain without willingness to toil; it is the deadly foe of industry. No powerful political party ever permanently rested for support on the theory that it is wise and right. No statesman has been thought well of by his kind in a succeeding generation for having been its promoter.” This is what the Lord had to say about usury in Exodus 22:25: “If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest.” Leviticus 25:35-37: “If one of your countrymen becomes poor and is unable to support himself among you, help him as you would an alien or a temporary resident, so he can continue to live among you. Do not take interest of any kind from him, but fear your God, so that your countryman may continue to live among you. You must not lend him money at interest or sell him food at a profit.” Deuteronomy 23:19-20: “Do not charge your brother interest, whether on money or food or anything else that may earn interest. You may charge a foreigner interest, but not a brother Israelite, so that the LORD your God may bless you in everything you put your hand to in the land you are entering to possess.” Psalms 15:5: “Who lends his money without usury and does not accept a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things will never be shaken.” Ezekiel 18:8: “He does not lend at usury or take excessive interest. He withholds his hand from doing wrong and judges fairly between man and man.” Ezekiel 18:13: “He lends at usury and takes excessive interest. Will such a man live? He will not! Because he has done all these detestable things, he will surely be put to death and his blood will be on his own head.” Ezekiel 18:17: “He withholds his hand from sin and takes no usury or excessive interest. He keeps my laws and follows my decrees. He will not die for his father’s sin; he will surely live.” Ezekiel 22:12: “In you men accept bribes to shed blood; you take usury and excessive interest and make unjust gain from your neighbors by extortion. And you have forgotten me, declares the Sovereign LORD.” The definition of usury is: “Interest; or premium paid or stipulated to be paid for the use of money.” [Noah Webster 1828] In the Hebrew the word usury means; “interest.” By a preponderance of the evidence; even if you don’t recognize the Bible teachings, you cannot deny the thinking of our forefathers. Clearly they wanted this country to abstain from paper money. If you will read the money clauses in the United States Constitution it is obvious that their intent was to prevent the use of paper money. So what happened? The international bankers were able to position men who were indebted to them in all areas of government, including the judiciary. And with unlimited money resources were able to influence world events like wars including Desert Storm. A glance back through history will show you this is correct. Am I laying all blame on the bankers? Not at all. Their plan could not have succeeded without the greed of man and his love for money. The internationalist plans are nearly complete. What are their goals? World domination and the ownership of people. “At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some trans-Atlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us with a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined could not, by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide.” (Abraham Lincoln) “If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” (Winston Churchill) Unfortunately this country and its people played a deciding role in their plans. Without this governments resources and the country’s manpower and blind obedience they could not have succeeded. Our forefathers share the greater share of the blame, because in their era the balance of power was not so overwhelming in the hands of the government. Apathy about what the king was doing behind closed doors has created our predicament, past and present. The government has clearly violated the Constitution and the mind set of our forefathers regarding the use of paper money. As a result this Country was bankrupted by 1933 and as a corporation the government defaulted its right to govern; and by continuing to do so, is operating under color of law. Since that time this country has received its just reward just as our forefathers predicted. The nation has become immoral as a result and the taxes unbearable to the middle class and the poor. Because of the government representatives, who are foreign agents and represent the international bankers, not Americans, this country is under a Foreign King. This Nation is still under British rule. The United Nations is a front for the King to control the world. The United Nations was granted its power by the United States and other member nations. The Rockefeller’s gave the United Nations then land on which it operates, the United States voluntarily became subservient to the United Nations in October 24, 1945. It also granted this foreign organization a Title of Nobility, which is expressly forbidden by the Constitution. This was all done while the American people sat back and watched in a inebriated state, enjoying the social benefits. “Everyone wants to live at the expense of the State. They forget that the State lives at the expense of everyone.” (Frederic Bastiat) Can this government be saved? Doubtful. The slate needs to be wiped clean, and begun a new with a fresh start. This time without paper money, we need to go back to a gold and silver standard as our forefathers wanted. You may choose to disagree with the statements I’ve made at the end of this paper. But, when this government collapses of its own accord as our forefathers predicted, and God Almighty predicted in His written Word, maybe then you will believe — if you are still alive. [Jonathan Williams recorded in his book Legions of Satan, 1781, that Cornwallis revealed to Washington during his surrender that “a holy war will now begin on America, and when it is ended America will be supposedly the citadel of freedom, but her millions will unknowingly be loyal subjects to the Crown.” Cornwallis went on to explain what would seem to be a self contradiction: “Your churches will be used to teach the Jew’s religion and in less than two hundred years the whole nation will be working for divine world government. That government that they believe to be divine will be the British Empire. All religions will be permeated with Judaism without even being noticed by the masses, and they will all be under the invisible all-seeing eye on the Grand Architect of Freemasonry.” Watch for “A COUNTRY DEFEATED IN VICTORY” released in 1994. monie.htm James Franklin Montgomery SUI JURIS Associated Files: Common Law Versus Conquest The Law of Office Found Friends, Enemies and the die-hard Doubters A King’s Charter that Refuses to Die How Long can a Corporation Live? The United States is Still a British Colony A Country Defeated in Victory – Part I Part II Part III http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/
  290. Paul Says:

    Yeap Chee Seng Says:
    January 21, 2014 at 7:25 am
    You are really confused boy. Just turn to Jesus and you are fine. No need to go through all those rubbish. Think of God as a loving father. Will a good father wants his children to be poor and sick? Of course being rich has its own temptations but so what? Which father will force his children not to be successful because some successful people are addicted to drugs?

    The bottom line is God expects us to trust him and use our brains. No one will go to hell for working hard and result in getting rich. Will God want us to give? Yes but he wants us to give cheerfully. Do you know what it means? It means giving because you want to not because you have been blackmailed by hell.

    I hope you will be able to see the folly of your heresy and turn to Jesus.

    Ok…fair enough; i agree with you here that no earthly father will desire that his son suffer in any way, or be poor, or suffer evil. Of course, this is true of our Heavenly Father, and much more so. However, your response prompts a question. My brother-in-law became seriously addicted to drugs and in doing so, helped to ruin his family. Only after more than twenty years, did he repent; and that only after his Mother’s untimely death. But the evidence of his selfish choices, how they wracked the family with nervous conditions, how his evil choices made them nervous wrecks; how he damaged his sister’s ability to form good relationships with others, and made his father hard and bitter in his old age…those evidences are very obvious today. Do you think his father should have chastised him more? Do you think, maybe something was wrong with the boy’s character, which the father, unfortunately, could not or would not bring himself to correct? Would it have been wrong, for the father (this happened in Singapore — and, yes, the Police did get involved) to have punished his son; or worse, wished him dead? Your responses belie such a lack of understanding about the true relationship between a loving father and his children, Chee Seng. You talk of how a father ought to relate to his children; but you never speak of your love for Jesus, or your Father in Heaven, in a personal way. If you could elaborate a bit on what it means to you to know Christ; and what Jesus means to you, i think you would enlighten Stephen and pj00 and TestTheSpirits, and many others who read or monitor this blog…in fact, maybe it would allow those who doubt the reality of your conversion, to have their doubts extinguished. Right now, all you seem to be doing is digging yourself further and further into an argument that contradicts the Spirit if truth.

  291. Paul Says:

    Spirit of truth…

  292. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hello Yeap.

    Without discipline and being chastised, we would go wayward and the bible says that God chastises those he loves (Hebrews 12:6-8).

    Look at you Chee Seng. Already, you are so conceited and prideful in your responses, truly, even without that much money.

    Imagine if God actually did give you money, how much worse you would become!

    Hence, God tempers your pride (incidentally, pride is the very first sin, and the root of all other sins, made by Lucifer) by giving you less than what you really ought to have, compared to if you were actually humble.

    It is ironic, because the bible talks about people exactly like you – It says “they are conceited and understand nothing … who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.(◄ 1 Timothy 6:4-6)

    Amazing… the bible is so true and revealing.

  293. Test the Spirits Says:

    For Yeap :

    If the Spirit of God (and love) is in you, you would be giving cheerfully without finding excuses for yourself.

    But if the Spirit of Satan is in you, you would have no desire to give at all (what more cheerfully?)

    Luke 16:19-31 – The Rich man and Lazarus

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R-rY5XnFn1k

    The rich man was wealthy, well respected, loved to entertain his friends with parties, loved his family and his 5 brothers, did no physical harm to people, never murdered. Problem is, he never had the Spirit of God (or Love) in him and never had the desire to give cheerfully… sounds like Chee Seng doesn’t it?

    Guess what? Jesus said he went straight to hell. What is hell like? Check out the above video. Yeap, I say this for your benefit because we want you to go to Heaven.

  294. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hi again Yeap,

    As for the false teachers you are talking about… you might want to check this out.

    Its about a woman with a vision of a real life pastor who died but went to hell for committing certain sins while on earth.

    A Pastor in Hell :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5_UC-LRopw

    Hopefully this horrific video of the Pastor in Hell video ought to clarify some of the confusion that is rampant in your life now as a Carnal Christian. Enjoy.

  295. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hey Yeap,

    Another Family Video for you to watch.

    The Horrors of Hell

    Sure you want to make $$$money$$$ your idol – your Alpha and your Omega?

    Enjoy!
    PS: Heaven is the opposite. Eternal Happiness.

  296. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hi again Yeap,

    As for the false teachers you are talking about… you might want to check this out.

    Its about a woman with a vision of a real life pastor who died but went to hell for committing certain sins while on earth.

    A Pastor in Hell

    Hopefully this horrific video of the Pastor in Hell video ought to clarify some of the confusion that is rampant in your life now as a Carnal Christian. Enjoy.

  297. Test the Spirits Says:

    For Yeap :

    If the Spirit of God (and love) is in you, you would be giving cheerfully without finding excuses for yourself.

    But if the Spirit of Satan is in you, you would have no desire to give at all (what more cheerfully?)

    Luke 16:19-31. The Rich man and Lazarus
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R-rY5XnFn1k

    The rich man was wealthy, well respected, loved to entertain his friends with parties, loved his family and his 5 brothers, did no physical harm to people, never murdered. Problem is, he never had the Spirit of God (or Love) in him and never had the desire to give cheerfully… sounds like Chee Seng doesn’t it?

    Guess what? Jesus said he went straight to hell. What is hell like? Check out the above video. Yeap, I say this for your benefit because we want you to go to Heaven.

  298. Test the Spirits Says:

    Oh Yeap,

    Another Family Video for you with a Happy Ending.

    Get your popcorn ready!

    23 Minutes in Hell which was recently published

    Strongly recommended for Carnal Christians like Yeap who think they can get away without repentance.

  299. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I am already saved. Unlike you I don’t have to bribe my way to heaven. I give cheerfully because I want to. A Christian can choose to give or not give. If he gives, he gives cheerfully.

  300. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    If you read my post, you will realise that I have seen my fair share of false teachers. My relationship with God my Father is strong enough that I don’t have to rely on someone else’s hell tales.

    This may be a mystery to you. I am living a holy life now because I am holy, not because I was blackmailed into it. Pray over this.

  301. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hello Yeap

    I hope you have a strong relationship because if you did, $$$$ would not be your Alpha and your Omega.

    Your blogs should evolve around your Love for God and Love for Others as you love Yourself (Jesus’ 2 greatest commandments for us) – Nothing is evident in your blog about this.

    The words most frequent on your blog is Money $$$$$

  302. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hi again Yeap,

    1) Your pride and arrogance is astounding. You actually claim to know what God thinks by saying “I am already saved.” How can any one of us be sure of this?

    Even that 98 year old beggar who gives all he has to the churches and orphanges isn’t sure of whether he is saved and whether he will go to heaven. What more you?

    Your pride (the first sinand root of all other sins by Lucifer) calls into question the holiness of your life.

    Repent my friend.

    2) Moreover, your love of money is clear. I do not see much words about Loving God and Loving One Another as Ourselves. The word that is most often used on this blog is Money Money Money MOOONAAAYY $$$.

    It is ironic, because the bible talks about people exactly like you – It says “they are conceited and understand nothing … who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.(◄ 1 Timothy 6:4-6). Amazing… the bible is so true and revealing.

    Already without that much you are so conceited and proud.

    Imagine if God actually did give you money, how much worse you would become!

    Hence, God disciplines and chastises you, tempers your pride, by giving you less than what you really ought to have, compared to if you were actually humble. The tempering of your pride may actually save you and allow you to enter Heaven.

  303. Paul Says:

    Hi Chee Seng,

    Thank you for replying to my earlier questions. Please forgive TestTheSpirits in his posts, if he appears to have tried to beat the Good News into you by scare tactics. I believe he means well; his desire is not to offend you but to encourage you to believe the truth and to know Jesus personally. When i was a young Christian, i often would exhort my friends and colleagues to repent and believe the gospel, because, i said ÿou will definitely be going to Hell if you do not believe” (in my loving Jesus). Hmmm. Maybe i was speaking the truth; but the WAY i spoke it might not have been Spirit-led.

    Your blog has been good for me, because it has prompted me to review the Bible and the words of Christ to find out what is actually written; and the truths there, illuminated afresh by others on this blog including yourself (and also quite a few ignorant or foolish remarks), have reinforced my convictions about what i actually believe — and whom I actually trust in for my future.

    But i some questions now, partly because i currently go to New Creation Church, which my father-in-law invited my wife and i to (this is how we first started going). In my few decades as a Christian, i had never attended a Charismatic church more than once or twice, as i considered what i heard of their behavior (their works, you might say, or lifestyle) as bordering on the insane (this means, babbling incomprehensibly; claiming miracle healings which were dubious; ‘miracle oil’ (fragrant vegetable or other oil ‘blessed’ or ánointed’ by the senior pastor and etc. etc.

    From what i understand of NCC after going there for about 2 years (we attended some Care Groups also — one in which the whole room of about 50 people was standing with hands raised and ‘babbling incomprehensibly’ which was quite an unsettling scene), it appears that there IS an emphasis on God wanting His people to prosper in their health and in their finances (either through a job or a business). There is an emphasis on trusting in the Blood of Christ (i.e. the communion) to find complete physical and mental healing (although Pastor Prince always mentions that he is not against anyone going to the doctor or having surgery also).

    So, what are my questions? Well, although i believe God wants His children to be blessed and to prosper, I do not believe the use of the Old Testament tithe (without which the $500,000,000 church and government facility called the Star could have been financed) to finance the salaries and benefits of the church is Scriptural. I base my conviction on the fact that Jesus and His followers and disciples (and many modern Christians) never solicited funds for their
    ‘ministry.’ It is true that Jesus and the disciples carried a bag (which Judas became responsible for); and it is also clear that some gave to Jesus and the disciples; but the fact is the tithe is not part of the New Testament at all. So, why does NCC and Pastor Prince and his worship team weld the tithe to the Christian church? By the way, as far as I know, you cannot even volunteer to serve in NCC in any capacity unless you make it clear officially that you tithe. Offerings don’t cut it (please correct me if i am wrong). So one question i have is, would NCC continue to grow as it has, if it did not have the tithe? What if, as Charles Spurgeon stated, the tithe is a tool from Satan to turn the Christian church into an instrument of the government (all churches are ‘nonprofits’ and pay no taxes whatsoever — yet the average Christian pays 50 per cent of his or her salary (in the West i.e. North America) in direct income taxes and indirect other taxes. So, in effect, the tithe used in the church is actually a state tax. How long will this situation continue? What happens when an abortion clinic (or a doctor selling the RU45 the abortion pill for a quick kill after illicit sex) sets up inside the megamall at One North (the Star)? How about cigarettes and booze? Will they gain leases at the Star? Half of the building belongs to the non-Christian, pagan government of Singapore. Expect these things (and worse, especially in the ‘performances’ that will take place in that building, polluting the stage that the Christian church praises and worships Jesus on…you wait and see…mark my words it will happen).

    So the tithe and ‘tongues’ (which are nowhere seen in the New Testament; the entire set of passages used have an incorrect meaning attributed to the word ‘tongue,’which is not to say that God did not know how to write His word; it is the evil spirits and Satan who have used this device to pollute, ruin, and make filthy the bride of Christ. Trust me: when you yield yourself to these ‘tongues,’you will find all manner of filth, blasphemy and contorted theology erupting out of the bowels of your inner man; it is NOT from God!

    Actually, what i should say here is not that i have ‘questions’ but many concerns. I am concerned about the church; i am concerned that Singapore is infested with unlawful and illegitimate spiritual imposters, whose mission (apart from stealing from as many fools as possible) is to engage in as much secret sin as possible, while teaching God’s people to disobey Him, especially when it comes to actually doing anything for your needy neighbors here or in the surrounding countries, which are basically still in the Dark Ages spiritually. As long as these wicked deceiving spirits can entrance and defile Christians, they will prevent the Gospel of Christ from reaching the inner powers of Southeast Asia (especially the Governments of Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc.) and many will die in their sins as a result.

    If i had the guts, i would start a Bible Study in Singapore, at Yishun area, where we would NOT focus on material prosperity and we would NOT take any offerigs or tithes. Instead, we would have a meal together, watch videos (not always Christian ones!) and serve the Lord together and read the Word. I don’t know if today’s ‘worship’ services really amount to anything more than mere exercises to keep us from sleeping in on Sundays…i mean, what does it mean to worship, anyway? I think this is a far more important question than perhaps anything that has been presented on this blog so far…

    From my experience at NCC last Sunday, where ‘Star Wars’ lasers and ‘much dancing’ and fabulous showmanship were evidenced by the performance ‘praise team,’ i seriously wonder where NCC draws the Quality Control line at, when it accepts people on staff for serving God. Does it only ask if they have áccepted Christ’and if they speak in tongues and tithe and have been baptised? If anyone ticks all the boxes, are they allowed to ‘serve and praise and worship God’ alongside the true Christians? Don’t get me wrong; i am not interested in boring and stuffy church services either…but i wonder…what would happen if it was found that 85% of NCC members had never actually repented for their sins? What if 85% of those in attendance on ny given Sunday had merely signed a piece of paper and áccepted Christ'(i did this and i know someone else who did that more than maybe a dozen times…it did not make me a Christian, because it is impossible to be a Christian WITHOUT THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT CONVERING THE SOUL: ‘THE LAW OF THE LORD IS PERFECT, CONVERTING THE SOUL. “The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. (Psalms 19:7 KJV).” I am fairly sure that Joseph Prince has likely NEVER preached on this verse…but this is unwise. While we are not SAVED by the law of God and the Ten Commandments, they are ALWAYS used by the Holy Spirit to bring comviction of sin, righteousness and judgement. They lead us when we are unbelievers back to Christ…so they are ESSENTIAL TEACHING in ANY Christian service, since MANY in such services are unaware that they are STILL LOST.

    I hope this message has been useful!

    Paul

  304. Paul Says:

    Hi Test The Spirits,

    Now that is a new one! i need to clarify that with you: how do you mean, no Christian can know whether or not he or she is saved or not? I went through quite a struggle over this question for several years, until i realised the truth of the matter is right there in Scripture:

    “….I have written this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know you have eternal life. (1 John 5:13 NLT).”

    It is not in keeping the commandments, believing in Jesus with the head and not the heart; going to the altar and ‘making a profession of faith’ or having a mental assent that Jesus Christ existed and ‘died for the sins of all men,” that we must be saved. We are saved from our sins by Jesus, for that is the purpose for which He came: “He shall save His people from their sins.” But what does it mean to be saved; to know that you are saved? To have assurance that you have been “bought with a price”?

    I am not an expert on this– as it is a bit of a complex subject– but my understanding is that the Holy Spirit brings conviction of sin to you at some point in your life — that you come to a deep and certain conviction that you are dead to God and lost to Him because of your separation from Him through the sins in your heart which you have committed; and which you WILL commit, because of your sinful nature. This conviction is from God and designed by God; but it is UP TO YOU to choose whether or not you will harden your heart to it, and follow after the truth in Christ….or ignore the pleadings of the Holy Spirit to repent towards God and have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (the foundation of all true Christian conversion). Some may say that we do not have ‘free will’ to choose whether to accept the truth of the gospel or not — i.e. that God has ‘programmed’ who will be saved and who will be dammned. While there seems to be some support for that in the Bible, for myself, i think the balance of the evidence is in favor of Jesus, since if that were so that men had no choice in the matter — then Jesus would not have needed to live, suffer and die at the hands of ignorant pagans and heathens, at the hands of his own murderous generation of Jews and Satanists…so that, there is opportunity for anyone and everyone to know the gospel and to understand it and believe it; and to REPENT towards God and have faith in the Lord Jsus Christ.

    This is my testimony. I believed and i trust my salvation to God. I believe He has already paid the full price for my salvation; but it is up to me to live faithfully in order to teach and bless others with a life which has been saved and re-oriented towards God’s glory as its final objective.

    Is that your testimony, Test The Spirits? How about you, Chee Seng?

    Cheers!

    Paul

  305. Paul Says:

    And one more, to help balance my posts…this one clarifies (i hope) what it means to be forgiven; to KNOW one’s sins have been forgiven; to KNOW one has eternal life; and (in my own personal experience), what it means to be certain one has eternal life (this is NOT the same thing as the modern teaching on ‘eternal security:’

    Warning: i mention homosexuality here…it is something that is never mentioned in New Creation Church; yet there are certainly some closeted gays in a congregation of 30,000; mathematically it is impossible to accept otherwise:

    Light (16:00:53) :

    Right believing will lead to right living. Knowing that you are forgiven much, you will love Him much. Jesus gave us (including the homosexuals) the gift of no condemnation, that gives us (including the homosexuals) the power to sin no more. (John 8:11) Likewise, the mainstream church needs to extend the same “no condemnation” to the homosexuals. The love of God will lead them back to the right path.

    This is not Scriptural. Why?

    1. Without conviction of sin, man will not repent.

    2. Only the Holy Spirit (and those who have been saved already or who are born-again) can understand what conviction of sin means; and can impart it to others. What is of the flesh is flesh; what is of the Spirit is spirit. People will not be touched in their spirits ENOUGH TO REPENT OF THEIR SINS unless and until their spirit meets the Holy Spirit.

    3. Unregenrate men and women do not know what ‘right living’ actually means. It does not mean, for example, what the Catholic Church teaches. It does not mean what Judaism, Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, the Koran, or any other religion teaches outside of what (specifically) Jesus Christ taught, and that, alone (i.e. not in combination, either).

    4. “right living” is not “obeying the Golden Rule” or “the Ten Commandments” alone; but they indisputably PART of it.

    5. Ditto for 3-4 for “Right believing.” Without the Holy Spirit, unregenrate men and women CANNOT understand spiritual things, for they are perceived by the spirit of man, WHEN it is illuminated (and only then) by the Holy Spirit of God. As the Apostle Paul taught, “spiritual things cannot be understood by the carnal (unregenerate) man.”

    6. “Knowing that you are forgiven much.” This is a misapplication of the words of the Lord Jesus Christ to the intellectual Pharisee who was seeking to justify himself as righteous before God — by his obedience to the Law of God DO NOT UNDERSTAND what it means to be righteous before God, nor what it means to be forgiven by God, nor how sinful they actually are and without hope of ever obtaining true salvation and true righteous standing before God without believing in and trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption through His crucifiction and resurrection. The Pharisees held onto their religion steadfastly, and accused Jesus of being a fake (naturally). They held onto the Torah and the Ten Commandments — although the Torah probably contains 120 or so actual commandments. In these passages (quote), Jesus makes it clear that they — and all religious people having any religion that depends on works and on obedience to the law to achieve or obtain a righteous standing before God — taken to the extreme — justification to the extent that they do not need a Savior from their wicked heart, and justification that ‘indeed’ they have IN FACT obeyed ‘all the perceived and not perceived laws of God that they could ever have reasonably been expected to have obeyed, under the circumstances” — actually do not understand AND CANNOT understand (unless the Holy Spirit opens the eyes of their heart) that they are dammned to perdition unless and until they repent of their sins and trust in Christ. AT WHICH TIME their understanding will be enlightened and they WILL UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH THEY HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN.

    Only a man or woman CONVICTED AND CONDEMMNED “IN COURT” FOR HEINOUS CRIMES WHO ACKNOWLEDGES HIS OR HER GUILT WHO IS THEN TOTALLY FORGIVEN BY A BENEFACTOR CAN UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH ABOUT SIN, RIGHTEOUSNESS AND JUDGMENT TO COME.

    We are all convicted and condemmned already by Heaven’s Court. God has already sent the Benefactor to save us; and His salvation has been accomplished already for us through His giving up His life and blood at Calvary. BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE FOR YOU IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IT AND BELIEVE SATAN, THE god OF THIS WORLD, INSTEAD.

    7. It seems to me reasonable that a minority of persons understand what it means to be forgiven at all, never mind forgiven much. This, in the human realm (i.e. of normal human relationships). What about Heavenly and spiritual relationships? Do the majority of persons understand these truths? I don’t think so. How about the majority of those who attend New Creation Church and/or listen to Pastor Prince’s sermons??

    8. How can you “love Him much” if you do not know Him (the Lord Jesus Christ?”)

    9. How can you “love Him much” if you have NEVER been convicted of your sinful past, present and future (BECAUSE OF YOUR SINFUL NATURE DE FACTO YOUR FUTURE IS DESTINED TO BE SINFUL WITHOUT SOME UNUSUAL EVENT). The conviction of sin, the conviction of God’s righteousness and awful holiness; the conviction of judgment to come on all unbelievers, scoffers, mockers and those who choose to live wicked and unbelieving lives that deny Christ every day, week, month or year — that CONVICTION comes from the Holy Spirit. It is that CONVICTION that leads men to repentance, not some ‘airy fairy’ term that Joseph Prince uses out of context: ‘the goodness of God leads men to repentance.” Yes, it IS the goodness of God that leads men to repentance BUT IT IS THROUGH THE CONVICTION OF SIN, RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND JUDGMENT TO COME AND THE REPENTANCE THAT FOLLOWS LEADING TO A COMPLETE CHANGE OF HEART.

    Without conviction of sin, there will be no repentance. Wihout repentance, you are not saved and you are not a Christian, no matter how often Pastor Prince or anyone else tries to impose on the Holy Spirit to convince you that you are. You are ONLY a Christian IF GOD TELLS YOU THAT YOU ARE.

    Be warned! Your assurance and certainty on this matter — though it may come in a moment or it may take some time — MUST COME FROM GOD AND NOT FROM MAN AND BE 100% SOLIDLY BASED ONLY ON THE WORD OF GOD. Every man will die; every man will give an account of his life (even the idle words of his mouth) to God. But God’s word will NEVER die and God’s law WILL NEVER be destroyed or forgotten FOR EVER. Therefore, it only makes sense to seek to do the will of God, listen to His Holy Spirit; and OBEY WHAT GOD TELLS US TO OBEY — HIM and NOT MAN.

    10. Having said all the above, the writer of the first paragraph is clearly misled; he speaks the words of Joseph Prince practically verbatim. Much of what Mr. Prince teaches is good for the mature Christian and indeed, it has opened my eyes more as to the glory of Christ and the depth of His love for me. It has even encouraged me to witness, read the Bible, and seek to save the lost!

    However, many people hearing Joseph Prince are hearing what looks to be a ‘one-sided’ message: a message that they can inherit the Kingdom of God (which is reserved for the righteous, the meek, the humble, the lowly and most likely, “the poor of this world, rich in faith.” How can we inherit God’s Kingdom, if we ourselves are living out of fellowship with the Spirit of God? If we are loving our sins and refusing to repent? if we seek money, more money and more and more property and ease and leisure — and refuse pointblank to serve the Holy Spirit in His Great Commission of earnestly working hard to seek “to save that which was lost?”

    Shall we continue to believe a lie, take our ease, eat, drink and be merry…while our neighbors (including those attending New Creation Church who have NEVER been convicted of their sins and repented — which might number 50 per cent or more of the 20,000+ members) are without a doubt believing a lie, and walking as dead men (and women), thinking that they are saved and do not need to do anything but “rest” (as Mr. Prince is so fond of teaching — hard to rest, when we have to work so hard to provide BOTH taxes to the state and the new ‘religious tax’ to New Creation Church, which totals at least 30 per cent of our income or it soon will)?

    “Be watchful, be wary, for THE ENEMY OF YOUR SOULS is prowling about, seeking whom he may DEVOUR.”

    “Strive (strenuously, with all your potential) to enter in at the Difficult Gate. For many, I tell you, will TRY to enter in; and they will be rejected.”

    As i have tried to clarify in the above short summary, it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone whom the Spirit of God has not convicted of their sins, for them to even hope for repentance. Without repentance, they will not change the way they live. Without changing the way they live, they will continue to hate and despise God (even if they go to church) by their choices, hidden and unconfessed sins; and their innermost thoughts. Without repentance, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God because the reason for the conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit is to give us the gift of faith in the salvation offered by the Lord Jesus Christ. If a man or woman refuses to repent (or cannot remember the day they repented; or their lives provide no evidence WHATSOEVER that they EVER repented…then HOW can that person say he or she has FAITH? It means, in effect, that it is possible to be part of the Christian church but remain an unbeliever. How can an unbeliever trust Christ, or understand what Christ did for him or her at the Cross? How can he or she understand what ‘forgiven much’ actually means (except in an intellectual sense)?

    I have been a Christian for more than 25 years. I have read many Christian books and maybe 50 Christian biographies. I was not brought up as a Christian nor did I see the inside of a Church building until i was about 22 (and that in my mechanic’s overalls covered with grease!). This ‘new teaching’ and ‘grace revolution’ taught by Pastor Prince omits the teaching of repentance except in the basic meaning of ‘change your mind.’ It ignores, discounts, and belittles the wondrous work of the Holy Spirit and His conviction of sin in great power and the authority of God in the mind of an unbelieving, unregenerate man or woman who is definitively — without any intervention from God or a change of heart on his or her part — GOING to burn in the lake of fire “whose smoke ascends forever and forever.” When a man has been truly convicted of his sins and truly repents for his biggest sin — his rejection of Jesus Christ — the Holy Spirit takes up residence in his heart and mind; and teaches him ALL THINGS.

    THIS IS THE BASIS OF THE “NEW CREATION” mentioned in Scripture.

    But, Joseph Prince (and other ‘Faith Teachers’ like Kenneth Copeland, Bill Hybels, Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen and MANY OTHERS) ignores and skips over the parts of Scripture which focus on the unbeliever’s NEED for TRUE REPENTANCE AND SAVING FAITH, which is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ACT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Without repentance, there is no saving faith.

    Therefore, what Joseph Prince is teaching, as are so many warped New Age ‘Christian’ teachers these days, is partial truth, mixed with a LOT of error. This is known as MIXED WINE in the Bible. If you don’t know the punishment for seeking after mixed wine, go look it up!

    I put the above together, after I read a thought-provoking response to the first post on this page:

    danski (17:56:58) :

    Unfortunately, most of the world even christians seems to defy the statement – right believing = right living. We do know what’s right and wrong, but it is our inability to live according to it. In the biblical perspective, knowing what is right and not doing it, is SIN. However, if we were to strive to live right to merit salvation, we are missing the point of Grace and Mercy and God’s role in the regenerating salvation of man.

    The love of God is indeed a powerful force to lead us to the right living, however Man has a choice to submit itself to the freedom that the regenerating or illumination of our Spirit by the Holy Spirit’s work and response to living right, and placing our faith in Christ. This is where in my opinion Arminian meets Calvinism. We have a free will to choose, in light of God’s work, Man’s obedience is required in order to be saved

    Cheers!

    Paul

  306. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    You should tell that to Jesus who has arrogantly died for all my sins and pridefully given me his righteousness. Salvation by faith is the basic for every Christian. This tells me that you are not one.

    No one can be saved by being a beggar. Only through Jesus. You need to repent from your blasphemy.

  307. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    It is very clear that the Test The Spirit is not a Christian in the first place or he would not have been ignorant of basic doctrine such as salvation by faith.

    As for tithe and tongues, they are practised all over the world, not just this church.

    As for spiritual focus, it is the easy way out because no one can prove you wrong. If Jesus were such a wimp, he would have multiply spiritual fish burgers, change water into spiritual wine and heal the spiritual sick. Thank God, he is not a wimp.

  308. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hello Yeap,

    Are you sure you follow the real Jesus?

    Do a search through your own blog.

    Money Money Money MOOONAAAAYYY $$$$ is the word that comes up most often.

    I do not see anything about Loving God and Loving Others.

    You follow a different kind of Jesus, one that tempts you with Bread and Power (none of which you have so far IN ABUNDANCE because the temptation was from Satan who lied to you, as he lied to Adam and Eve, to make you think you would have it)

    Follow the true Jesus and start demonstrating the Fruits of the Spirit in your life – example : Less of Pride, More of Love for God and Others as yourself.

    All I see right now through your words are Fruits of the Flesh – Pride, arrogance etc. – which lead to death, not life.

  309. Paul Says:

    Hi Chee Seng,

    I have written quite a lot on your weblog and i will call it quits for now, and make sure to pray for you. I don’t mind if you attack me and tell me i am not a Christian, or demean me and twist my words; whatever i said is to benefit your spirit and soul. The LORD is my shepherd; daily He sustains me with His grace to continue believing in Him (which is where it all started, in 1986, anyhow). I started to believe in God after reading a few passages of Charles Darwin’s IOrigins of Species.”

    I know, that sounds a bit weird; but its true. I did not really start to believe in Jesus “as my Lord and Savior” until some months later; and even then, i didn’t realise i was still not born again; i thought by praying, reading the Bible, and staying away from sin (such as breaking the commandments) that i was a true Christian. I also signed one or two
    ”I I receive Christ” statements.
    Then, i met some Christians who changed my life and my understanding. My life changed direction entirely; because i began to believe that God’s will is central and not peripheral to my destiny.

    I met someone who had made something like a dozen altar calls; yet he still felt condemmned by his sins, he still felt God was angry with him and considered him a sinner; and he found no victory at all over his love of certain sins like pornography or adultery or fornication, lying, stealing, etc. At the time i met him, he was no longer in a state of confusion and bondage to the law; and he now knew what saving grace actually means. But perhaps a year or two before that, he had been in a tormented and confused state (which is where Satan works strenuously all day to keep most people — especially those who desire to seek after God).

    I won’t go on at length (thank God!) but i will make it clear to you Chee Seng, if you believe the gospel, you won’t be controlled by fear of breaking the commandments of God — you will have the truth that sets you free…and you will actually have a relationship with Jesus Christ and understand what it means to be saved, to have a place in Heaven reserved for you (yes, i do believe that Jesus paid the full price for my salvation; but a contract for a redemption cannot be accepted — obviously — by the Receiver, unless and until the debtor ACTUALLY AGREES).

    I don’t understand why you attack my faith and assurance; perhaps you are trying to shake me or make me waver — because of your own significant doubts about your own salvation? Yes, it is TRUE that Jesus died for all of your sins and mine — and indeed, for those of the whole world of sinners. But, is everyone going to Heaven? Just those who believe and follow Jesus, right? Hmm. What about those who say they believe; but they have never repented for their sins? How can it be possible to say you are a Christian — someone who is born again; but you do not have any power to change your evil desires? How about those who ‘worship’ in the church and even ‘serve God’ in the church; but their lives are NO DIFFERENT from when they did not believe in Christ? My father-in-law is such a man. He attends NCC but he tells me privately that he doubts the New Testament is real (he suspects it is all Fairy Tales). His still has a problem with pornography; and he is 76. His mind remains darkened and, from what i can see, his heart has not ever actually turned towards God and repented for his former evil way of life. Yet, he stands with his arms raised and ‘praises God’ every Sunday.

    WARNING: i am not teaching works salvation. The Lord Jesus and the Apostles’ teaching (and let’s not omit the Holy Spirit, who witnesses to our spirits whether we are born of God or NOT) is clear on the NEED of a soul to respond appropriately to God. Not everyone who is presented with a clear message of the gospel will repent the first time; in many cases it can take some time — maybe even decades. But once you choose to believe the gospel, i firmly believe a miracle greater than the raising of the dead happens. The choice to believe the gospel is ONLY possible by the power of God, in a miracle — because the unregenerate, carnal and natural mind of man CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. This MEANS that ONLY a work of the Spirit of God can save you and I — without that work of grace, our walk remains outside the Kingdom of God and we deceive ourselves that we are ïn the faith.”

    Chee Seng, i will pray for you that your heart is not offended by my words and that your love for God will recover from whatever damage it has suffered under the evil spirits that have tormented you (and may still do so), hurting you and making it almost impossible to trust God.

    p.s. i don’t believe in the current monetary system or financial system at all, and have been seeking to build a better one…i understand what you mean if you want to be really rich; but from my perspective, your desire is just a massive reaction to the wickedness and unfairness of the current financial system run by elitist ungodly oligarchs and Satanists; but i am certain that by seeking to use that evil system to build your wealth, Satan will find a way to erode and steal it one way or another. So, there is a better way. Maybe you can pray that i will finally be able to start implementing it, even here in Singapore, after researching for more than 25 years?

    Cheers and God bless!

    Paul

  310. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Since when can a non Christian have the right to override God’s salvation.

    Let me tell you how you cannot be saved. Bribery. Even if you give away all your money like that old man you will still not be saved because God cannot be bribed.

  311. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    One word of advice to you Test The Spirit. Stop focusing on money.

  312. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Paul you are really confused. Suddenly I am tormented by evil spirits now? To believe or not is a personal choice. You choose it. Believe and you are saved. That is the deal unless God is a liar.

    Turn to Jesus and trust in him. Go to him as you are. You don’t have to be perfect.

    That is my advice to you.

  313. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    By the way, do you really think that after repentance you will have no sin?

    What do you expect your father-in-law to do? Stop going to church, stop worship and praise God until he become sinless?

  314. Servant Says:

    Chee Seng

    I’m curious, what is your take on the following verses (which were spoken directly by Jesus Christ himself)?

    Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and decay destroy, and thieves break in and steal. But store up treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor decay destroys, nor thieves break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there also will your heart be. (Matthew Chapter 6:19-21)

    No one can serve two masters. He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. (Matthew Chapter 6:24)

    Now someone approached him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?” He answered him, “Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He asked him, “Which ones?” And Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother’; and ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself.’” The young man said to him, “All of these I have observed. What do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to [the] poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this statement, he went away sad, for he had many possessions. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Amen, I say to you, it will be hard for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God. (Matthew Chapter 19:16-24)

  315. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Those who quoted those verses never obey themselves. This is only another proof of hypocrisy.

    How about you? Do you obey them? Have you given away everything you have? Are you keeping a single cent in your pocket?

  316. pjac00 Says:

    Hello Yeap,

    Just because someone commits murder does not mean that you should to.

    Notice how you skirt and shirk the question without answering?

    Instead, you conveniently shift the focus onto “Servant” without actually knowing for sure how devout he is in “building treasures in heaven instead of on earth” as Christ asked us to.

    You are not being honest with yourself.

    But, then again, I don’t think you can see past your own nose because you’re too self absorbed. Again, it comes down to SELF and never considering others. How can you have the Fruit of the Spirit in you? It looks like youre manifesting the Fruits of the Flesh.

  317. pjac00 Says:

    Yeap,

    Another time…

    Servant asked you…

    What is your take on the following verses (which were spoken directly by Jesus Christ himself)?

    Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and decay destroy, and thieves break in and steal. But store up treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor decay destroys, nor thieves break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there also will your heart be. (Matthew Chapter 6:19-21)

    No one can serve two masters. He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. (Matthew Chapter 6:24)

    Now someone approached him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?” He answered him, “Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He asked him, “Which ones?” And Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother’; and ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself.’” The young man said to him, “All of these I have observed. What do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to [the] poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this statement, he went away sad, for he had many possessions. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Amen, I say to you, it will be hard for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God. (Matthew Chapter 19:16-24)

    ***

    I suspect you already know the answer but you are hiding behind the “I bet you don’t do it so I don’t have to do it too” card. We are all accountable to God on the day of judgment and if you tell God “I bet others didn’t do it, so don’t blame me!”, guess which exit you will be headed towards? South.

  318. Gary Kaw Says:

    Chee Seng

    So to clarify, these verses, spoken by Jesus Himself (whom you claim to follow), do not matter to you?

  319. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Why these verses only? What is the full meaning? If these verses are the full meaning of the Bible, all Christians have agreed not to obey them.

  320. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Why are you not obeying them? Are you also a hypocrite? You know how to quote. Why are you not obeying?

  321. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Are you being honest with yourself? What is your answer? Why do you skirt and shirk the question without answering? Another hypocrite? Show me that you obey them.

  322. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    The evidence is clear. Those who quoted those verses have no intention to obey them. So, I don’t have to explain the true meaning because those hypocrites only want to insist on the perverse meaning and yet refuse to obey the perversions.

  323. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    You hypocrites tried to abuse those verses to justify your poverty gospel but refuse to obey them yourselves. What does that mean? Poverty gospel is for others and not for you hypocrites?

  324. pjac00 Says:

    Hello Yeap,

    To you, the word “Prosperity” means Money and Financial Gain – and this is clear from your blog.

    So, by your own definition of Prosperity to mean Money / Financial Gain alone, and by your own admission you follow the Prosperity Gospel, we can deduce that you follow the Money Gospel.

    (i.e. Prosperity Gospel = Money Gospel = Chee Seng’s View of what following Christ is only about.)

    Chee Seng, come on. You follow the Money Gospel??

    Boy, you are clearly trying to justify your actions to serve 2 masters – both God and Money (Matthew 6:24).

    a) Why can’t you simply admit to the fact that not serving 2 masters – God and Money – is difficult but should be the direction all mature Christians should be heading? Is that so difficult?

    b) Prosperity encompasses many aspects, including the Fruits of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, self control etc) manifesting in our lives and financial gain (relative from person to person, depending on that person’s purpose on earth), But you are obviously claiming that prosperity is all about financial gain.

    c) If you believe so much in the prosperity gospel, why arent you super rich now? Tell me Yeap. If you believe so strongly in this, why aren’t you on the front cover of the PEAK magazine?
    To put it simply, if a 70 year old garbage cleaner becomes a faithful Christian and as a result of being a faithful Christian found himself never in need or want and is always joyful, happy, contented with the Fruits of the Spirit manifested in him (that is also considered prosperous), but never became a millionaire, would you consider him saved / prosperous? Tell us Yeap.

  325. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    To me the word “Prosperity” means abundance in every area of life -and this is clear from my blog.

    So, by my own definition of Prosperity means abundance in every area of life , and by my own admission I follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ, you can deduce that I follow the True Gospel.

    (i.e. Prosperity Gospel = fiction of imagination and never existed.)

    This is why I never follow the Money Gospel because it does not exist.

    a)I don’t have to justify serving 2 masters because I am only serving one. Most of my waking hours from Monday to Saturday have been dedicated to serve money. This is why I am not serving God. No one can serve 2 masters.

    b) Prosperity encompasses many aspects, including the Fruits of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, self control etc) manifesting in our lives and financial gain (always means abundance to all people, depending on the person’s chosen purpose on earth), and I am obviously claiming the above is true.

    c) Just because I am not super rich and not on the front cover of the PEAK magazine does not mean I must abandon Jesus and live like a heretic.

    Jesus can save a 70 year old garbage cleaner but that does not mean every Christian must be a 70 year old garbage cleaner. Whether he wants to live out his life in accordance to God’s will is his personal decision to make. As for me and my household, we will follow the Lord.

    How about you?

  326. pjac00 Says:

    Hello Yeap,

    You write something very honest and I respect you for that, that is “I don’t have to justify serving 2 masters because I am only serving one. Most of my waking hours from Monday to Saturday have been dedicated to serve money. This is why I am not serving God. No one can serve 2 masters.”

    I never saw it that way before. Since we are working so hard on weekdays, we are serving money, not God, to some degree. You have a point there too.

    Tell me, how do you reconcile “serving money and not God” with “following the Lord” which you mentioned “As for me and my household, we will follow the Lord”.

  327. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Follow does not mean serve. Most Christians except the super rich serve money. That does not mean they do not follow Jesus.

  328. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Anyway, part of the privilege of being a Christian is you don’t have to hide anything from God. You will not go to hell for asking God for more money.

  329. Paul Says:

    Hi Chee Seng, pjac00, TestTheSpirits…lemme ask y’all, so we all know what we actually believe: do you guys all totally agree with this woman’s words? I think she clarifies how to become a Christian and what it means to be one, fairly accurately (better maybe than i could):

    LisaAugust 19, 2013 at 11:49 AM
    Wow, snap out of it people. This is heresy. Do any of you read your Bibles? Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden were living a sinless, beautiful life with God in their presence. They were tempted by Satan to do the one thing God told them not to – eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil. The moment they did that, sin became a part of the world and a part of us – as did spiritual and physical death.

    We are all guilty and fall short of God’s moral standard (the Ten Commandments). Because God cares about our hearts and thoughts as much as our actions, He judges us on those too. Jesus said that if we even hate people, we have committed murder in our hearts.

    When we die, we will face God on Judgment Day – and He will judge us – not on our standards… But on His perfect moral standard. We have all broken His moral law and stand guilty. The Bible even says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. We are unable to be pleasing to God. God hates sin. No matter how “good” we try to be, or all the good things we do or all the rules we try to follow, or how many times we say we are sorry – We are condemned to hell. Every single one of us. But, there is good news…. Very Good News!

    God loves us. So much so, that just over 2000 years ago, He sent His Son Jesus Christ – to live a perfect, sinless life here on earth (something we can’t do). Then Jesus (fully God and fully man) willingly chose to die a brutal death on the cross (the death we deserve). The Bible says it pleased God to crush His Son. He hates sin that much. Jesus’ death was the only sacrifice that could pay for our sin – past, present and future. Jesus was buried and three days later He arose again bodily, forever defeating sin, death, and the Devil and proving He was indeed God.

    To be reconciled to God we need to repent (turn from/forsake our sins and turn to Jesus) and trust in Jesus Christ (Who He is and what He did for us on the cross) alone for our salvation. When we do this, He promises to forgive us our sins against God… reconciling us to our Father. He seals that promise with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. He gives us a new heart with new desires – we are a new creation in Christ! He gives us the desire to want to live according to His way and enables us to be obedient to Him. As we grow in our relationship with God, He makes us more and more holy to be like Christ.

    Jesus is coming back again to be forever united with those that are His (believers) and to judge and condemn to Hell those who are not covered by the Blood of the Lamb.

    He will restore the Heavens and Earth where His children will live forever with Him. Amen!!

    Please reply if you simply don’t agree; and why. Ta

  330. Paul Says:

    My take on her words is basically what she says is exactly what i have believed for more than twenty five years; and i am trusting God that He will continue to give me the grace to always believe the truths this woman explains. It isn’t head knowledge about the Bible, or struggling to obey the decalogue (10 commandments) that saves our eternal soul from being cut off permanently from God (also known as Hell). From what i understand, the Bible makes it clear that man is totally corrupt and unregenerate — unable utterly to save his eternal soul from the punishment it must, by law, receive from God, unless that soul has chosen to receive the only acceptable payment for the damages owed to God when that soul (along with the entire human race) chose to willingly despise God. Don’t ask me difficult theological questions about what happens to innocent babies in the womb who are mercillesly aborted by their mothers; or why my Mother was struck down with terminal cancer and died at 67, though she loved the Lord. I do not understand God well enough yet to understand why He allows such things.

    But what i want to say is that i think Joseph Prince at New Creation Church, and other “faith teachers” overlook, or deliberately omit from their preaching (and why, indeed would they do this??), is the fact that the meaning of “repent” is present continuous tense: “repent and believe the gospel AND DO SO UNTIL YOU LEAVE THIS EARTH AND YOUR BODY WHEN YOU DIE.” In my experience, we are sanctified (set apart for God’s use and purposes) the second that we turn to God in true repentance and truly believe in Jesus as our only Savior from our sinful nature; and the LORD of all (and everything in our life, our possessions; our future itself). But, to walk in the Spirit, to allow the Holy Spirit to renew our mind and to allow Him to change our desires and evil nature into one of Godly character and behaviour and to make us preachers of faith in Christ, so we can also feed the sheep who belong to Him, is a miraculous thing. It is absolutely not something our own human nature can accomplish–ever. And it takes time…

    I hope i have encouraged you Chee Seng? I think you do believe the gospel it is just that you are totally fed up with fake Christians, a fraudulent “poverty gospel;” lying teachers and unhelpful people who spout a mouthful of Bible verses; but actually have no solution to bringing the power and grace of God into your life! I agree with you that the LORD is totally able to create fine gold out of thin air; and quite willing and able to give it to His children. However, as a responsible Father, He cannot do so until His sons and daughters are mature enough to know how He would want His investments to be well managed. In truth, i believe all Christians are not merely going to give a moral account to Christ, on the Day of Judgment; we are all also responsible to bring back a RETURN to God for His investments. At least, that is how i understand the “Parable of the Talents.” I think it means we are to use the “unrighteous riches” to help others (especially poor, sick, homeless and hungry souls who are also believers; but not only believers of course).

    May God help each of us who wants to trust Him, and to believe Ge is love, to beome what He created us for; in His perfect timing. Remember, if you can’t say anything good; keep quiet and allow the Lord to do so. Chee Seng, if i offended you earlier, i hope you can forgive me.

    Cheers!

  331. Paul Says:

    Apparently, Michael Dell started his multibillion dollar computer empire by selling homebuilt computers from his garage…what if Mr. Dell were a Christian? What about Bill Gates? Are all rich men ungodly scoundrels? I don’t think so! It seems it is the majority; but then, maybe that is athiest media bias…in any case, just imagine if Mr. Dell had honestly repented and become a Christian, AFTER he made all his billions…my point is that, God wants rich and powerful men to be in places of authority: but He wants them to be His first!! Sadly, it seems, to date, the majority of such men and women continue to despise Him and to consider Christ a mere annoyance or inconvenience — at least at the moment. Maybe there will be a very brave, very wealthy man or woman who will show us less wealthy souls how to truly love what Gid loves…let us pray for it! And in the meantime, do what is needful to make up the difference! After all, we do have a reward to look forward to, for our “…obedience of faith…which works by love.”

  332. Paul Says:

    The spelling mistakes made using the ipad…they really are not helping my message! Hope you can overlook them!

  333. pjac00 Says:

    Hi Paul,

    For me, my main issue with New Creation (the church which I attended for a few years) focuses very much on earthly treasure and healing.

    However, I find myself more at peace when listening to the sermons from some smaller churches (not as popular as the mega churches which preach more on earthly health and wealth) that preach on the SPIRITUAL (which is eternal) rather than the EARTHLY MATERIAL (which is like a mist / vapor).

    By Spiritual I mean – Storing treasures in heaven where thief and moth do not corrupt, Fruits of the Spirit, Taking no thought for one’s own life here on earth (because God our Father wants us to ultimately be in eternal heaven and will not give us earthly things on earth that might destroy us while on earth).

    By Earthly Material I mean – God wants us to be healthy and wealthy like an earthly father would. Or, we have to be rich, famous and healthy on earth in order to be a blessing onto others, which is clearly wrong thinking because even the poor can bless the rich, and even the sick can bless the healthy.

    Any church that professes to follow the bible will incline itself towards preaching the SPIRITUAL (which is eternal) over the MATERIAL (which is temporary and like a mist/vapor) and that is my main issue with New Creation Church, which is why I left.

  334. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    It is already in my blog.

  335. Paul Says:

    Hi pjac00, thanks for the reply. I probably don’t have enough experience at NCC to know about any serious emphasis on material wealth and health, since I have only been going to service there for about two years (first at Suntec then the Star and now Woodlands). Wht i mean is that I do not know what type of teaching has been going on before, say 2010. I have enjoyed a great deal the messages from Pastor Prince that uplift my soul to understand more about the loveliness and attractiveness of Jesus; but i do wonder, sometimes, how an unbeliever would interpret some of the statements made about gaining riches or wealth by faith. Maybe the emphasis has changed since you left? For most of 2012 and 2013, very little of Pastor Prince’s messages have even emphasised wealth by faith in any measurable way (maybe a few sentences for the whole year).

    But what i mean by Í wonder about’ above, is how someone who is living under a burden of sin and guilt who comes to NCC would be convicted by the Holy Spirit (assuming they are not Christians). I had more struggles with lust before I came to NCC; so there does seem to be something productive and useful (at least in my case) through Pastor Prince’s emphases. However, i find it difficult doctrinally and in other ways to understand why an unconverted person would be led ‘by the goodness of God to repentance’ in any NCC service, if the preaching of the law is not there, given powerfully by the preacher, and led by the Holy Spirit, to draw that hopeless sinner to see the depravity of his or her lost condition; and then to perceive the only salvation available — in trusting in Christ.

    To me, God is VERY concerned and interested in QUALITY CONTROL — something that is not sufficiently emphasised in Chinese companies and maybe even in Chinese culture (I worked in China for 28 months…i am not an expert but the quality control for the products we were developing, was seriously lacking). If you wish to lead people into a life of shallow faith, where a sudden and awful attack by Satan and/or his friends can do great damage to your life and faith; or even without such attacks but your own convictions are allowed to remain weak and without exercise (i.e. built up by the power of the Holy Spirit as we walk in the Spirit), perhaps one day, you will find yourself disinterested in further following and believing in Christ, even to the end of your life. If this is true of the majority of NCC attendees, then i think NCC has a great deal to worry about in terms of future problems. A Christian whose faith has been tried and tested; yet that believer desires even more, each year, to know and possess Christ (to use the words of St Paul); this is the type of Christian i want as my friend.

    If, on the other hand, a leader and his team encourage sinners to come to church and mentally trust Christ and give their donations to the church…but who fail to build such souls up in their faith and in obedience to the Spirit of God; and, instead, teach them to focus on worldly ambitions, gaining property and wealth; and on preserving and building up their physical as opposed to spiritual health (they are not mutually exclusive but i am talking about emphasis), then i fear the the average person attending NCC will fall away, or abandon Christ, at some point. It is quite wrong, for example, that 38,000 people can come to the Star during one weekend, and many f those people will not ever be spoken to by anyone; and they may never be seen again. To me, this is not right and it makes me wonder if this is even a Christian church at all. Several churches in Singapore are like this (I used to attend FCBC); but are not the leaders responsible to give account?

    Hope this helps those who read here!

    Paul

  336. Resurrection Says:

    If you are not good looking or extremely talented, then no-one is interested in you in NCC unless they find out you have money, then they’ll try to find a way to exploit you (often in the name of God) whether it is by selling you insurance, multi-level marketing or getting a job at your company etc etc .. There is nothing holy (separate from the world) at NCC.. in fact, it is just a mirror reflection of some of the uglier things we see in the world only that you sometimes can sing nice songs to God and in those moments forget about your troubles. Having said that, you don’t need NCC for that because you can get an iPod and listen to music yourself and worship God in your own sanctuary which is your body/temple of God. The world is a sad place already and if you are trying to escape its snares, then you’ll simply be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire if you follow the trend at NCC. What real christians really need is at least one good christian friend who is not trying to exploit you or control your mind. If you find that friend, then you are really blessed because these people are extremely rare in this world -and….. they are not really from this world.

    The teaching of having your guilt removed entirely by believing your positional or actual place “in Christ” is a good way to temporarily remove guilt from those who suffer from covetousness, jealousy and love for unrighteous mammon. No wonder so many people like to buy this message. People can get away with accepting that kind of preaching for a while, yes, it seems to work for a while just like positive thinking does, but in the end you are going to find that something is seriously missing and you’ll try to find someone you need to talk to about it but you won’t be able to talk about it with people in your church circles, so where will go? Maybe you will start searching the internet out of curiosity to find if there are other people who feel the same way? Maybe you will find this blog entry?

  337. Test the Spirits Says:

    Hi Resurrection,

    I used to attend NCC myself and was so drawn into Prince’s CDs, for several years, until one day I decided to read the bible for myself.

    I had difficulty reconciling disparate concepts taught by Joseph Prince and what the Bible says…

    Prince teaches – God wants you prosperous and healthy. He wants you to not have a job but to be in a position of influence. By your stripes, you are “physically” healed (not just spiritually, which is ironic, because while I have seen diseases not clearly visible like cancer going away at church, I do not see readily visible physical disabilities like an AMPUTEE growing back his limbs).

    Bible teaches – Take no thought for your life and to store treasures in Heaven where moth and rust do not destroy (sermon on the mount).

    How long did you attend NCC before realizing the problems with the teaching?

  338. Paul Says:

    Hi Resurrection,
    What you have said is really good food for thought: tasty, rich in protein; and edifying all at the same time “,). i have been a Christian for some time and have fellowshipped with many Christians in different churches all over the world. While NCC has problems we must not forget to pray for the souls who are going there regularly, that they will be edified and find freedom from religion, lies, and sinful bondages. For myself, spiritual healing is a part of salvation and comes with being born again; it is never secondary. So, to be born again into Christ one becomes alive to Him and dead to sin; this also means ‘alive to righteousness.’

    As i have attended NCC and have sought the truth about sin, righteousness, condemnation, salvation, deliverance from bondage, and the ‘true and complete gospel’ which topics have all become most significant again (perhaps prompted by attending NCC), i have been very blessed with the things i have read (both good and bad) about NCC and Pastor Prince; and on this blog.

    We are warned in the New Testament to ‘have no fellowship’ with the works of darkness; we are also strictly warned not to even eat with a man who calls himself a Christian but who is a fornicator. We are also taught to work with our hands and to seek to bring glory to God by seeking to do His will rather than our own; and to find such work to do that will glorify God.

    My difficulty in this life as a believer has been primarily a) to stay away from sinful choices and to live by obedience to the Spirit, as my carnal nature is quite wicked. For some temptations, the obedience of my heart to walk in the Spirit was almost immediate; but in other areas it took years and i still sometimes fail to choose the will of God — which is ‘your sanctification.’ The second part of the above is b) to find out the specific will of God for me which God desires to see fulfilled; this is very difficult and i have struggled often to be certain about making the right decisions regarding relationships, choosing a job or vocation; and (perhaps most importantly) marrying the woman whom God selects rather than choosing one which pleases my flesh the most.

    I do not want to make a long speech; but i believe these two areas of difficulty mentioned above (and especially, how to correctly deal with them); and the focus of God’s desires being on our sanctification, are missing from many Christian services these days and from many pulpits, including say for example, Joel Osteen’s. Pastor Prince does focus on Jesus and lifting Him up; but my understanding is that the focus of the church is to build up the disciples and to serve the believers and to seek first the Kingdom of God (which means saving lost sinners, does it not? this is not emphasised much at NCC); and to help those in the church who are struggling with sin, with finding the will of God in their walk as in vocational choices; and in finding a Godly life partner.

    Because NCC does not focus much on teaching the chuch how to be solid Christians who are growing in their sanctification; because it fails to build up Christians through fellowship (nobody has ever spoken to me about anything in all the about 100 services i have gone to so far), balanced and varied teaching (rather than focusing solely on the grace of God and on Joseph Prince’s ministry themes), it will only be an ancillary group to me and (especially because it is so parochial in outlook and function, having invested 98% of its huge capital base firmly within the borders of wealthy Singapore) i am still (after four years and three churches or church-type organisations like FCBC) looking for a church and fellowship which is what God wants me to be part of.

    So far, in Singapore, i have only found cultish groups or groups that are indeed churches but, which are very lopsided in their emphasis of Scripturally unsubstantiated or minimal doctrines such as speaking in tongues or achieving wealth and health by choosing to believe the ‘right’ doctrine (which is actually wrong doctrine, since it automatically excludes other doctrines that are clearly supported both by the Spirit and by the Word of God and Christ)…and i find that my wheels are spinning and i achieve little.

    My time in Singapore is limited but i hope to learn enough while i am here (and also some truths through NCC, in spite of its faults), in order to be useful to God at the right time, in the right place.

    Cheers!

    Paul

  339. It was just time to go Says:

    I was at NCC for more than 10 years, I left just last year. I think they started well, but not sure about now.
    There are problems… at least *I* have problems with it. I still think not all of NCC is bad. There ARE good things and there are bad things, but unfortunately for me, there are more bad things than good things.

    What Resurrection says about “If you are not good looking or extremely talented, then no-one is interested in you in NCC unless they find out you have money, then they’ll try to find a way to exploit you…” has some element of truth in it.

    Be warned.

  340. Test the Spirits Says:

    To : It was just time to go

    I knew it.

    For a moment, I thought I was the only one who felt that NCC preached too much on *secular* success instead of SPIRITUAL success, like storing treasures in heaven.

    NCC’s emphasis was only on Abraham’s and Solomon’s blessings. While that may be true to some degree, we are taught by Jesus himself not to focus on these earthly desires, but instead to focus on spiritual desires – for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also (Matthew 6:21).

  341. Lee Says:

    1. You are taught that having more money after believing God wants to give you more money, since prosperity is a sign of faith
    2. You want to be accepted in the winners/word of faith crowd
    3. You lie cheat and steal from those who are innocent in order to prove to your brothers and sisters you are blessed.
    4. You get more money from your secretive cheating and intelligent stealing
    5. You are now a success in the eyes of your brothers and sisters and you can give testimony and evidence of the Lord’s blessings, memorise some scripture and think you can fool everyone.
    6. You can preach and teach others about how your believing has changed your life
    7. You can even ask for money from others to listen to your lies about how you became a success
    8. You grow old and can never turn back unless you own up to your lies
    9. But you get even older and those who are truly spiritual can see that you’ve never changed what you believe
    10. You really become old and lose your true innocence. In fact, you’ve lost your soul and you’ve become so wicked that you can’t even change if you want to. You seek change/repentance with tears but it is not granted. Those who are truly spiritual can detect that something is wrong with you and you can’t stand being around them because the light is unbearable. You persecute those who are true in the guise of righteousness but actually you have become unrighteous and wicked, even though you hide it behind an appearance of piety.

    When you get what you want in your struggle for self
    and the world makes you king for a day
    Just go to a mirror and look at yourself
    and see what that man has to say

    For it isn’t your father or mother or wife
    who judgement upon you must pass
    The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life
    is the one staring back from the glass

    He’s the fella to please, nevermind all the rest..
    for he’s with you clear up to the end
    and you’ve passed your most dangerous difficult test
    when the man in the glass is your friend

    You many FOOL THE WHOLE WORLD down the pathway of years
    and get pats on the back as you pass
    But your final reward will be heartache and tears
    If you’ve cheated the man in the glass..

  342. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Perfect description on evil churches.

  343. Robert M. Says:

    I live in America and first heard of Joseph Prince in 2010, because the pastor in my church (David T. Demola) said one night, “…no one preaches more Grace more radically than Joseph Prince…” It was a very curious statement to me. Never heard an American preacher say such a thing about another preacher, let alone someone who does not preach in America. I wasn’t even a tither at this point, despite having heard so many different sermons from preachers in America, on this subject.

    The long and short of my story is that I started to hear JP on television. Then started to buy all his sermons in 2011. Even started tithing faithfully to my church in July 2010 after hearing JP’s sermons on the tithe.

    I’ve never heard anyone preach about Jesus or teach the Bible like JP. And what he is preaching, a mortal man can not come up with on his own. I praise the Lord for raising up pastor Prince and for showing American believers like me, that we can learn from preachers outside of America.

    I believe Pastor Prince is a 21st century Apostle Paul. I believe in his ministry and believe he is God’s #1 man of God, on earth right now. That may offend people, but that’s just how powerfully he’s impacted my life and the lives of people who I pass his sermons to. And it is the Lord’s style to take a pastor like JP, from a tiny country like Singapore…to shake America and all the nations of the world who hear him. God bless Pastor Prince and the people of Singapore. They have the greatest church in the world right on their land.

    Rob

  344. Robert M. Says:

    Also forgot to mention that I too love Jerry Savelle and continue to buy his tapes and believe ion his ministry as well.

    I just wish American preachers would give Joseph prince more recognition. Saw Pastor Creflo Dollar at Joseph Prince’s preaching event in NJ in November 2013 and I’ve never seen him as excited as he was that day, hearing pastor Prince preach about the gift of righteousness and just how rich Jesus’ Grace is.

  345. Yoyo Says:

    Who cares about American preachers and who they give recognition to? Most of the preachers in the world become crooks in later life. They start off with seemingly good intentions but their real desires come out in the end i.e. the love of money.

    If money is so important to us, it might be better that we admit we love money and go into business, not mentioning God’s name at all, or using him as a cloak for our real intentions.

  346. Robert M. Says:

    Hey YOYO, I bet you don’t tithe. Just by the HORRIBLE attitude you have about finances.

    Probably just PRETEND those scriptures in the OT about tithing and honoring the Lord with your finances…aren’t even there.

    TYPICAL CROOK Christian…who spends the Lord’s tithe….

    AMAZING how Christians LIKE ME and others, don’t COMPLAIN about tithing, but you do…

    Take your ‘phony spirit of Grace’ back to hell where it belongs since you love money SO MUCH and are obviously offended…to even HONOR Jesus with your tithe…

  347. Paul Says:

    Hi Robert, i tithed my income for almost ten years to a fundamental Christian group called Laymen’s Evanglical Fellowship. They started out very small in the early 19th Century and were based out of India (read ‘Another Daniel’ for extensive details). I worshipped and fellowshipped with my church for close to ten years in Canada; and — as a student with a large debt load — funded three trips to India because i was invited to attend the ‘May Retreat’ of the Fellowship. But, after some years, i began to worry about some of the attitudes and character of heart that i saw and experienced personally from my local chief steward and there seemed to be so much of the flesh in operation and not the Holy Spirit. Yes, we had a tithe: but it was not rigidly enforced. All in all, i know i gave more than $20,000 plus offerings (my income as a student wasn’t high and i had to pay $600 a month against my student loan for more than three years). After some time, my local leader (for 25 years) together with about 40 of us, broke away from this group and sought to experience Christ the way that God intended — WITHOUT THE DOMINATION AND CONTROL OF ANYONE. I believe in local leadership but NOT domination and control, secrecy and abuse of the sheep. It was discovered after we decided to leave (or some time before) that the finances of the group were not lawful nor honest; i myself had been asked to carry a full suitcase into India and then at the Customs, declare that i ‘did not have’ the key. Is that honest? Is it Christian?
    We discovered that taxes that were due to be paid should have been but were not; in fact the organisation was NOT lawfully registered in Canada yet it was operating tax-free and abusing charitable status — and many other evil things. So tell me, was i right to tithe?
    I will speak to you a word of wisdom: tithing is part of the LAW, you ignorant man. Tell me, how is it POSSIBLE that the entire Old Testament Law DOES NOT APPLY per se to Christians — YET THE TITHE STILL APPLIES? Don’t give me that lie about Melchizideck! What? Are we children of the Law? Are we followers of Melchizideck? Are you going to insult Christ by telling His children that they OWE money to Melchizideck? It is a lie.
    You know FULL WELL that tithing is of fruits and vegetables and produce from the field. Don’t you DARE try to put a yoke on the children of the Kingdom. If it were not for the LIE of the tithe, that enormous monstrosity called ‘Star Performing Arts Centre,’ where homosexuals and athiests and Satan worshippers ‘perform’ INSIDE THE CHURCH might not have been constructed. Is it Scriptural and right, that $500,000,000 has been spent (and more) and committed to a building and project that will house abortion clinics? How about pharmacies that sell abortion pills? Is that OK with you? NCC has made a deal with Satan by putting its feet of Iron into the Clay of the wicked de facto athiest or baal-worshipping Singapore Government.
    If you continue to tithe, without asking yourself AM I NOT ACCOUNTABLE TO GOD FOR EVERYTHING HE HAS GIVEN ME PERSONALLY? then you are foolish. If NCC spends ALL of your money which you worked hard for, on foolish and useless entertainments and (eventually) wickedness, WHAT CAN YOU DO? YOU ARE THE ONE THAT PAID THEM TO DO IT!
    Do as our Lord Jesus asked, and GIVE to the POOR and you WILL have treasure in Heaven.
    Do you think even ONE PERCENT of that TEN PERCENT that you give to your local church (tell me, who actually gets the money? why don’t you get off your lazy backside and find out!) goes to the NEEDY CHRISTIANS? That is the SOLE purpose of giving in the New Testament. There is a GREAT DEAL of succinct and detailed and SCRIPTURALLY ACCURATE information online available, to make it EXPLICITLY CLEAR that the tithe — as twisted and distorted by today’s church leaders — is NOT and NEVER WAS for the body of Christ to trust their MISLED leaders with.

    You are a fool if you do not listen to me. May the Spirit BURN these words in you — until you repent.

    Paul

  348. Robert M. Says:

    First of all Paul, NONE of the money I have is a result of me ‘working hard for it.’ All the money I have comes from the Lord.

    Right away I believe you are showing yourself to be the FOOL thinking that all your money comes from your ‘hard work’ as opposed to the Lord. So immediately we can see the difference in attitude from one Christian to the next, when it comes to who THEIR SOURCE is. Is your source Jesus or you? I suspect you think that the Lord has had nothing to do with prospering you…like so many Christians these days seem to think.

    Secondly if you don’t want to tithe, then don’t. Because clearly you don’t have a revelation of what the tithe is all about and the Lord doesn’t want the tithe from people who don’t understand the principle of it. The Lord put the tithe into the Bible, not preachers. So once again you have a very poor attitude when it comes to what the tithe is. I mean you talk about the tithe as if anything you put into Jesus’ hands, gets stolen from you, which it never does.

    Lastly, the tithe is something that you bring to your local church where you are spiritually fed, after bringing it to the Lord by faith. And its not your responsibility to delegate where that money is to be used or how the church uses. Get off your high horse and stop acting like you have any right to tell a ministry where to use the tithe, that belongs to the Lord. In fact, with that ugly attitude, you should never tithe to the Lord again. Once that tithe is turned in, your responsibility ends.

    There are many good churches out there where you should feel confident tithing to. But as I suspect, that’s not what you are interested in. In fact, you are just interested in making a case not to tithe to absolve your conscience of what the Lord has taught us in the Bible.

    In fact, you can always find where a person’s heart is at, just but looking at where they spend their money. And a lot of Christians don’t want to hear anyone point out how so many Christians steal the Lord’s tithes and offerings and don’t sup[port any work of the kingdom. In fact, these same type of Christians, when you check their giving…it doesn’t even add up to a tip at a diner. But they sure have no problem spending all that money on themselves, while making silly excuses why to not give to the Lord what is His.

    Which is why some believers will never see the blessings of the tithe. Which is why SOME believers declare that ALL their income comes from the Lord while OTHERS like you Paul, are so quick to CREDIT YOURSELF and talk about your money like it comes because of your ‘hard work.’

    You are clearly speaking from the ‘HOKY Spirit’ as opposed to the Holy Spirit. And you clearly have a very ungrateful spirit, with all your silly and childish excuses not to tithe.

    But then again, some of us don’t worship money LIKE YOU PAUL and have a MORE GRACIOUS spirit about where our money comes FROM PAUL. And thank God that churches like mine and NCC, get rid of the real cheap spirit that believers like you have PAUL.

    Yea let those words burn in you PAUL, because you clearly don’t have much value for what Jesus has done for you. Its actually quite funny when you think about it. You can trust Jesus with not going to hell, but you can’t trust Him with 10% of your come. LOL

    They’re just excuses at the end of the day by Paul ‘Free Loader’ Christian, who just looks for more reasons to justify spending the Lord’s tithe on himself.

    But I’m used to hearing. JP makes a lot of believers uncomfortable. Because the believer that doesn’t tithe, doesn’t give anything to the Lord. Just comes on the web and bemoans those that do because they never pout their money with their mouth is.

    Oh they are SUCH BIG TALKERS, throwing around nickels like they are manhole covers, but all their money never touches the things of God because its all because of their ‘hard work.’ LOL

    Rob

  349. Paul Says:

    Hi Rob,

    Thanks for your early reply.

    You are hurtful and injurious in your reply, saying that I never give, nor does my giving even amount to ‘a tip at the diner.’ You say that i love to spend all my income on myself, and make many other false accusations, grievous to the Lord. But that is your heart; and the heart of all who believe money can buy them ‘favor’ from God. Is that your attitude, Robert? Do you honestly believe that when you give to the church, you are giving to God? Are you SO brainwashed that you sincerely believe ‘your responsibility for your giving ends at the offering bag/plate.’ Yet Jesus has told us that even for our idle words we will be judged. What kind of idiocy is it to believe you can ignore His explicit warnings against the love of money? You think the church leaders and your ‘loving church’ are somehow EXEMPT from judgment which shall begin ‘at the house of God.’?

    Your comments are hurtful, because you ignored everything i said and provided NO support from the Scripture to make a watertight case for your illogical notion that the God who created Heaven and Earth and all things, might actually want your dirty fiat money created by a pagan Government (also known as the ‘unrighteous mammon.’). No, far from absorbing anything i said speaking the truth in love, you accuse me of being a worshipper of money; yet you said NOTHING about the ten years of tithes that i gave to my former church. You do not understand what you are talking about. Are you a young believer?

    I believe God wants us to give to those in need FIRST and especially the poor Christians. Why do you ignore EVERYTHING i said on this? Why are so many churches corrupted by the love of money and material riches? i suppose you would say Jim Bakker’s church is still worth giving a tithe to? Creflo Dollar? Kenneth Hagin? Oral Roberts? Kenneth Copeland? These churches are multibillion dollar BUSINESS enterprises: you think Satan will allow them to have ‘tax free’ status for ever? Tell me something, what happens when NCC and other such ‘businesses’ LOSE their charitable status. Have you considered what might happen, as the church is FORCED to pay salaries and commissions and etc on ALL expenses that are marked to market by the Government? You think everything will stay the same? These businesses which BILK people of money and what the Lord has given them with many LIES shall pay for their raping the bride of Christ. The church is built on Christ alone; but some of the organisations we have today are NOT Christian churches. They are FOR PROFIT BUSINESSES and the money you foolishly give to the rich, shall make you surely come to want. “He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want. (Proverbs 22:16 KJV).”

    You are terribly misled about tithing, as it is clearly from the Old Testament Law; how can you be so blind as to be persuaded that God is so mean that He actually NEEDS your money? Don’t you understand that He is justifiably OWED your ENTIRE LIFE? I don’t understand people like you, who seem to think they can give to God anything and secondly, that by doing so, they have no calling to serve God by helping the needy and the lost and the poor and the sick PERSONALLY. Giving to an organisation that will WASTE the contributions of its ‘congregation’ and SPEND most of that income on luxury cars, penthouse apartments, beautiful condos and wealth-generating investments is a foolish step which will cause you enormous pain and suffering when you finally SEE that it is YOU that is going to be called to account, NOT THEM.

    “So then each one of us shall give account of himself to God. (Romans 14:12 KJV)” and “….But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. (Matthew 12:36 KJV).”

    Robert, are you born again? I believe so. It is good that you believe in giving and you want to give to God. But i am concerned that your money that God gave you to be a responsible steward for, is being consumed for selfish lusts rather than being used to serve the Lord. I spend very little on myself as my living costs are low (perhaps $200 a month). I desire to give to those in need — especially Christians — and i am organising my giving to ensure it has the greatest impact for the lowest cost, to the glory of God and to show the world that God is real and He loves them.

    Does your giving the tithe (alone?) and then washing your hands of the rresponsibility to be a good steward, also do this? Does it glorify God that you refuse to pray about how your funds given to His Kingdom should be used?

    Joseph Prince has been a great blessing to me: but does that mean that i should believe EVERYTHING he teaches? Some of what he has preached is clearly unscriptural (he is no different from any other pastor, as we are never perfect in speech!).

    When the world governments, controlled by the filthy rich (I use the term for a reason) decide to abandon ‘tax free’ charitable status (and this is coming), or enforce diabolical restrictions on churches wishing to continuee that status (such as forcing them to hire practicing homosexuals, athiests and pagans — which is THE LABOR LAW in many parts of North America today), what are YOU going to do to help your local church? HOW are you going to help them to continue, when their income will be reduced 95%???

    On tithing, i cannot give sufficient answers to persuade you, as it took me more than ten years to understand forced tithing is not from God. But this man could help you, if you would open your ears:

    http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html
    http://www.truthguard.com/Articles/is-tithing-biblical-a22.html
    https://truelogic.wordpress.com/2010/04/26/jesus-christ-on-john-hagee-tithing-is-unscriptural/

    Robert, for the love of Christ, please read the above and don’t hate me because i preach the truth. But if you do hate me, my Advocate will speak with you soon enough.

    Paul

  350. Paul Says:

    Hi again Robert,
    After re-reading your whacking of YOYO and her post, i want you to clarify how you became a Christian. Is it through your family upbringing? Did someone take you to a service and ask you to pray with them, and you signed the card to “accept Jesus”?

    I have a friend who is in Heaven now, but he went up many times to altar calls and was even preaching the Bible in meetings. But he was no saved from his sins. He was not walking in the Spirit. He was not born again. External activities such as reading the Bible, going to church, praying in tongues and other works of the flesh are not the work of the Spirit but the work of the flesh.

    What makes you think you are saved from eternal separation from God? You think tithing is going to make an iota of a difference?

  351. Paul Says:

    Hi Robert,
    My final response to you on tithing for today:
    “A warning to all charlatans and would-be tithe extractors and collectors: There is NO temple of God being officiated in Jerusalem today. There is NO Levitic priesthood to officiate at such a temple. There is NO NEED for such a temple or priesthood at this time. Only Levites could collect tithes at the temple. Therefore, EVERYONE collecting tithes today is a charlatan and a fake. If one cannot historically trace back his genealogy generation by generation with no lapses to the family of Aaron, he IS NOT and CANNOT be a priest authorized of God at this time to collect tithes for the temple services and sacrifices. (Of course Jesus IS our Sacrifice, and therefore that whole system funded by the tithes of the law is no longer applicable).”

    Brother, this is a hard teaching to accept if you have tithed all your Christian life; you may wonder “will God punish me?” Of course He will not! But, better to start giving personally as the LORD directs, as follows: “….Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.” (2 Corinthians 9:5 KJV)

    In this passage, and in the verses before, Paul the Apostle is speaking of the collection for the poorer saints (Christians who were poor). According to NCC teaching and that of many churches and so-called Christians today, there is NO SUCH THING AS A POOR CHRISTIAN. And if there is, it is THEIR FAULT. How is this thinking going to help the poor? How is it going to help those in need in the church?

    Such thinking, and the idea that giving a tithe or offering to a man or an organisation absolves a born-again Christian from his priestly duty to serve God and to love His things by prayerfully asking for and following God’s directions as to whom amd to what to invest in for the profit of the Kingdom, is evil and wickedness. Such giving will be corrupted by Satan in due time, because it is not given to God but to wicked men who deceive the church through lovely words and great speeches.

    Give as God directs you personally, brother; the LORD prosper you in all things but i pray your giving will save others and help many to find Him, rather than going into beautiful facilities that enrich the wealthy.

    Sincerely
    Paul

  352. Robert M. Says:

    LOL Point out how wrong it is not to tithe and not only does someone question if you are saved, but they TWIST and SPIN scriptures to suggest that people who DO TITHE, are somehow deceived by demons.

    Hey crooks in the church, like PAUL, spare me the ridiculous comments you continue to post. I have seen the blessings of tithing in my own life. I believe what the Lord has to say in his Bible. Not what crook Christians, like yourselves say, Because you want to justify your theft. Good day Crook Christians.

    No one should ever listen to any ‘Christians’ who attack any preacher about what the Lord talks about in the Bible.

    And Paul you said you would not make any more posts. So please spare us all unscriptural nonsense and posts that are designed to support stealing the Lord’s tithes and offerings. Like many Christians you have a ‘westernized mind’ and don’t even understand the Jewish roots of the Bible, which is why you cry and moan and soil yourself, when you can tolerate that there are believers who understand what the tithe is all about.

    Don’t worry though PAUL, under Grace, you can get away with plenty. The Lord will not hold your THEFT against you. Would have been a different story under the Old Covenant though…where the Lord took a practice from Abraham, Isaac & Jacob, UNDER GRACE, and put it under Levitical law.

    And Paul you really have to be quite low functioning to think that someone who prays in tongues, is not saved. You can’t even do that without having the Holy Spirit in you. You aren’t a brother. You are an ignorant, imbecile, upset because he steals from the Lord and shows just how flaky he is by even questioning the salvation of others because they practice by faith, what he doesn’t because you are CROOK in the Body of Christ.

    Rob

  353. Robert M. Says:

    And you know what’s funny or HYPOCRITICAL about so many of you selfish and crook Christians…is that in your own personal lives, you have no problem pursuing prosperity. I mean if you don’t believe in prosperity or honoring the Lord with your finances, then quit being HYPOCRITES and at least be consistent with what you claim to believe.

    If PROSPERITY offends you so much, then quit your job. Sell all your possessions and go live under a bridge, n squalor.

    But you can’t expect a HYPOCRITE CHRISTIAN to do such a reasonable thing. prosperity is good for these kind of hypocrites, as long as it doesn’t involve them BRINGING to God what is His.

    Just criticize the church, while you freely sit in the pews and steal fee revelation. Its what you are good for. To freeload from the pew,

    Its amazing how even Abraham, Isaac & Jacob had NO PROBLEM tithing to the Lord. But so many 21st century Christians get all offended about tithing, because you don’t really think ALL THAT YOU HAVE comes from Jesus. If you really believed that, you would shut your critical mouth and bring Jesus His tithe to say THANK YOU. But you don’t Because you don’t live under Grace.

    People who truly live under Grace, don’t have a povery spirit and believe that the Lord will MULTIPLY those fiannces when they are put into His hands.

    I mean a little boy puts 5 loaves and 2 fish into Jesus’ hands and saw thousands fed, with leftovers. But bring the Lord 10% of your income, and ‘Christians’ like Paul think that the Lord just wants to steal your money.

    No the Lord is trying to get something TO YOU. But you don’t have the character yet, to be trusted with more. Why should the Lord trust you with more finances, when you can’t even be faithful with the 10% He asks to brought back to Him?

    He knows if he gives you more, you’ll just SELFISHLY send it on yourself.

    Yea please tell me how I’m not saved because I posted all these things. I’d rather tithe like Father Abraham, than be a crook like you non-tithers. Excuse makers. Always justifying theft. Ungrateful believers, who treat 10% of your income like Jesus isn’t worth 10% of your income.

    And I bet you non-tithers don’t contribute less than 1% of your income to the things of God. Shows how selfish you use your money.

    Rob

  354. Paul Says:

    Try giving your tithe or offering when you will not be able to buy or sell without Bank approval that requires your implicit consent to serve Satan. Come on, try me. You ignored almost everything i said in my post and failed to even review the evidence in those many links and articles. By all means, give your tithe! Just don’t hide behind it and make excuses for rejecting the will of God in your life to give Him all.

    If you are an example of the typical NCC Christian, then how will Singapore be saved? How will the sick, hungry, poor and damaged people in Singapore be helped? I suppose tithers feel they do enough, right?

  355. Paul Says:

    I was homeless for more than six months. I chose to be, to find out what it was like. Have you ever done that, Chee Seng?

  356. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Why would I want to be homeless at all? Who do you think I am? A pervert? My God has given me a functional brain. I will never be a pervert in Jesus’ name.

  357. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    If you don’t want to tithe, don’t. Who is forcing you?

  358. Robert M. Says:

    Paul you are getting ridiculous.

    1. I am not a member of NCC. I am a Christian from America, INCREDIBLY blessed by the ministry of Pastor Prince. In fact, its his teachings that gave me a revelation about just how powerful the tithe is, when done out of the revelation that Jesus is our SOURCE for everything and that He is our Melchizedek.

    2. The links you posted are pure garbage. Put together by Christians who have every excuse nott o tithe, because they like stealing the tithe and offerings that belong to the Lord.

    3. Jesus has done MORE FOR ME than YOU ever have. I tithed when I had virtually nothing to my name. But you know what, I didn’t sit around and complain about my situation and lack in my life. I made a CHOICE to use the little money I had, THAT THE LORD GAVE TO ME, to invest in Pastor Prince’s sermons. And after hearing JP’s sermons on tithing, I got the revelation what its about and just started tithing believing that my JESUS WOULD NOT LET ME DOWN, no matter how dark my life looked like at that time.

    4. It is the Lord’s style to come to you in the darkest moment of your life. You really should close your mouth for awhile. You talk to me like you are some expert on hard times??? What a presumptuous person you are. When the Lord put pastor prince’s tapes in my hand…in America…mind you I don’t have the ability to go to NCC every week because I live over 1000 miles away…

    When the Lord put his tapes into my hands, I lost my health, my job, and every part of my life was falling apart. And just by listening and speaking the Lord’s Word and practicing Communion and everything else the Lord teaches in the Bible, Jesus got it all back and more!

    And Jesus is the ONE who did the ‘hard work.’ How dare you lecture me about he Word of God when you don’t know the first thing about walking by faith. You are a baby Christian. Talking more about the things you find fault with in churches and preachers, than even TALKING ABOUT HOW GREAT JESUS IS.

    You know what you are? You are a poser. In America that means you are a fraud. A big mouth. A liar. You try and present yourself as some big time Christian, not believing anything the Bible really has to say. You talk more about the problems you see in the church, than you do about Jesus. You talk more about how big your challenges are than HOW BIG JESUS is.

    In fact YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. Christians like you complain about everything. Every bothers you about a church or preacher. You don’t actually believe the Word of God, because its never worked for you. Then you have a problem when someone like me, who has seen the WORD WORK, talks about its 100% effectiveness.

    5. You are not qualified to speak about anything in the Bible. You are critic and a bomb thrower. You have no respect for preachers and no one should ever listen to anyone like you, that finds more fault with God’s Word than his own unbelief.

    YOU PAUL are the problem, not Jesus. Not God’s Word.

    DON”T want to tithe then tithe. And keep your mouth shut about others tithing. You don’t have our faith. You are still drinking from the baby bottle, not even knowing how to walk by faith.

    Rob

  359. Paul Says:

    Hi Rob, show me one Scripture that says the evidence of being ‘filled with the Spirit’ is ‘speaking in tongues.’ It is well known that every single interpretation of modern faith preacher heretics that ‘spoke’ or ‘spake’ in ‘other’ tongues as written in the King James version means ‘a KNOWN LANGUAGE BUT UNKNOWN TO THE SPEAKER.” IT IS NOT A BLATHER OF UNINTELLIGIBLE GIBBERISH more resembling demonic possession than anything else. How can you be CERTAIN that this spirit that drives you is the Holy Spirit? Are you still bound by the spirit of fornication and adultery? Have you the power to overcome these things now, many years after being ‘filled with the Spirit.” What criteria are you using to state categorically that “speaking in tongues” means anything except something meant to convict “the unbeliever” that he or she is a lost sinner who needs to repent and believe the gospel?
    “Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.” (1 Corinthians 14:22 KJV)

    Please explain what this verse means. I am not holding out much hope that you will give anything except an ad hominem response (personal attack — and you accuse me of being immature! How sad) but, can you clarify the meaning of that verse? It seems to be saying that speaking in tongues (and the ACTUAL TEXT IS THAT THE TONGUE IS A KNOWN LANGUAGE AT THE TIME BUT, BY A MIRACLE, UNKNOWN TO THE SPEAKER) is a SIGN to CONVICT the unbeliever of his sin, and turn him or her to God. Is that how you use your ‘gift’ of tongues? Is that how Pastor Prince, singing for a long time on Sunday recently, in ‘tongues’ thoughout, uses his ‘gift?’

    Tongues-speaking is a sign to the unbeliever today; to stay away from those who twist the Scripture to support their own interpretations, so that they can follow what their heart wants and NOT CHRIST.

    And by the way it is a free country: i can speak against tithing as much as God allows. What this country needs is not more emphasis on Christians getting rich and getting STUFF from God. What it BADLY NEEDS, in a SEA OF IDOLATRY, is TRUE REPENTANCE TOWARD GOD AND FAITH IN THE LORD JESUS.”

    May God take your entire tithe, and your entire income, and give it to the not-so-gullible righteous, until you learn what this means: “I desire mercy; and not sacrifice.”

    “For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.” (Hosea 6:6 KJV)

    Paul

  360. pjac00 Says:

    To : Robert M

    1) Missing the point of being a mature Christian

    While I do understand the importance of tithing, you miss the point of being a mature Christian, dear friend.

    Consider Matthew 23:23 ► “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices–mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the MORE IMPORTANT matters of the law–justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the LATTER, without neglecting the former.”

    Clearly, your words to Paul lack restraint, love, forebearance, kindness, goodness and faithfulness.

    You may tithe, but you have neglected the more important matters (outlined by Jesus himself) that demonstrate the fruits of the spirit (Galatians 5:22-23 ► love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control.)

    Tell people that you listen at the feet of Joseph Prince and many will flee from New Creation Church at the sight of your words, to Paul especially.

    You ought to be a beacon of light, letting it shine before others, so that they may see your good works (and words) and give glory to your Father who is in heaven (Matthew 5:16)…. or … is your own personal edification (from feel good sermons by Joseph Prince) and prosperity more important than Jesus’s supreme commandment of loving one another?

    Think about this, friend.

    2) Pointing out erroneous teaching that prioritizes secular success over the supreme commandments

    Separately, Paul has a point when he suggests that Joseph Prince does not emphasize much about God’s supreme commandments to love God and to love one another as we love ourselves (Matthew 22:36-40). Be honest with yourself Robert. Consider all the CDs from Joseph Prince you have listened to.

    How many of the CDs you have listened to have actually seriously talked about the supreme commandments to love God and to love one another? God’s will, not mine? Give alms to the poor? Hardly any. Most of his CDs focus mostly on SELF abundance, SELF prosperity and SELF edification.

    There is nothing wrong in Paul raising his concerns about false teaching because if you actually take the time to study the bible, you will notice that Jesus and his Apostles did NOT go easy on false teaching; and, it does exhort all Christians in 2 Timothy 4:2 to “be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.” … for … “the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts (of the eyes and flesh and the pride of life – 1 John 2:16) shall they heap to themselves teachers (e.g. Prosperity teachers), having itching ears (to hear feel good sermons); They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” 2 Timonthy 4:-4

    If you disagree with the above, disagree amicably. But don’t tear other Christians down just because you believe that prosperity for SELF trumps and supercedes loving God and loving one another over self – clearly demonstrated by your words towards a fellow christian like Paul.

    (From Someone who used to attend New Creation Church for several years and knows well Joseph Prince’s teaching).

  361. Paul Says:

    Lastpost for now….Robert and Chee Seng, i do not know you personally; but my prayer is that your influence for evil will in all respects be utterly vanquished — and that quickly — and the fear of the LORD will recover you to the right mind which is in Christ…and that His goals in your life, which tithing and giving to God have very little to do with, will soon be manifest, and you will bring forth fruit abundantly.

    Amen

    Paul
    i will pray for you both to repent for believing in works, signs and wonders, the power and efficacy of money outside the control of the Spirit; the power of a man and the energy of the flesh…so that you will stop grieving the Spirit. Yes i want you to prosper! But not at the expense of the truth of Christ and the Word of God.

  362. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Not wanting to be homeless is evil will, not fearing the Lord and not in the right mind?
    By the way I can bring forth fruit without having to bribe anyone.

  363. Paul Says:

    Chee Seng and Robert, by what you say you make it clear that you do NOT understand what it means to live by GRACE. By grace we are saved; by grace we do not tithe or pay any ‘temple tax.’ Any Theologian who teaches you differently is twisting the Word of God to command something it clearly does not. WHY are you so BLIND that you cannot understand that anyone demanding a tithe from you BY COMMANDMENT or ‘by the order of Melchizideck’ is NOT teaching you the truth!?
    I will make another (brief) attempt to clarify about grace (not my words; if you refuse to read this all, PLEASE have the courtesy to read the LAST two paragraphs):

    What About The Widow Gave Her Last Penny
    Tithe teachers like to use the poor widow and her two-coins to teach tithing. Universally commentators tell us that our Lord is giving us a little glimpse of true worship in the middle of the false worship that dominates the temple. They tell us that it�s a beautiful little story in the midst of ugliness. A little light in the midst of darkness, an illustration of giving till it hurts, an example of sacrificial giving, contrasted with the selfishness of the spiritual leaders. This is the traditional and universal explanation of this passage. In fact, scholars agree that this is a lesson on giving, but interestingly enough they can�t agree what the lesson is. And if you were to go through 10 commentators on this passage, they would suggest many lessons. They don�t all agree.

    The traditional explanations of this text make no sense to me at all. One thing I do know is this, the Lord does not expect you to give 100 percent of what you have so that you have absolutely nothing left. But that�s the only obvious principle here if you�re going to draw a principle. Besides, why would you inject the principle in giving in a context like this? This is no place to interject, �Oh by the way, a few words on giving.� That sounds like a traditional tithe teacher�s sermon, in the middle of everything you always have a few words on giving. What in the world does that have to do with anything? The Lord makes no comment about giving except that she gave more than everybody else relative to what she had. She is not commended. They are not condemned. No one�s attitude or spirit in the giving is discussed. And no principle regarding giving is drawn by our Lord.

    The narrative is not intended to deal with any of those matters. The reason the Lord doesn�t say anything about it is that�s not what it�s about. We must always look at scripture within its context. If you look at the context before and after, you see that this is all about the condemnation of wicked spiritual leaders and a corrupt religious system. In fact, in the verse prior to these verses, Jesus says, �Beware of the scribes who like to walk around in long robes, and like respectful greetings in the market places, and chief seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets, who devour widows� houses, and for appearance�s sake offer long prayers; these will receive greater condemnation� (Mark 12:38-40). And in the passage immediately after these, He says, �Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down� (Mark 13:2). This little vignette is in the middle of a discourse against a false religious system and a pronouncement of judgment on that system, judgment that is still going on today.

    Now back to what the widow was doing. �A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which amount to a cent.� What is this woman giving money for? It is for the �Temple tax.� By tradition the half-shekel became known as the �Temple tax� that was collected annually. This tax was a tax first imposed by Moses for the upkeep of the tabernacle in the wilderness (Exodus 30.11-16).

    According to the book The Temple – It�s Ministry and Services as they were at the time of Christ, by Alfred Edersheim (1825-1889), the Pharisee sect, during the reign of Salome-Alexandra (about 78 B.C.), made this tax an annual mandatory tax, and could seize property to pay it. To this practice Christ may have referred in denouncing the Scribes and Pharisees who �devour widows houses� (Matt 23:14). For a good deal of this money went in the end from the Temple treasury to them.

    It is assumed by most that the widow�s offering of two-coins is voluntary. It was placed in one of the 13 trumpet-shaped vessels used to receive the various public offerings of those who enter into the temple. Some offerings were obligatory, related to the �Temple tax,� and some were freewill and contributions of charity. Nothing in the text indicates the widow�s offering was voluntary. In fact, the scene might suggest that the two-coins were more related to the �Temple tax� than to the voluntary freewill offerings.

    Read Matthew 17:24-27. Notice this remarkable story of the only time the �Temple tax� came up in the ministry of Jesus. Most Christians will never hear an explanation of these verses because these verses are highly incriminating to those who teach the tithing of money to the Church. The reason Peter said �yes� to the temple tax collector is because it was embarrassing to Him to say, �No, my master does not pay temple tax.� It was such a small amount of money. But now Peter has to go into the house give Jesus an appraisal of what just happened. Jesus being merciful to Peter does not reprimand him for not being honest with the �Temple tax� collector, but rather, cuts him off before he can speak and saves Peter the embarrassment.

    According to the scriptures, we are children of God. And so, by Jesus� own words, we are exempt from taxation! Now, He goes on to say that God will provide the tax money so �they� won�t be offended. But who are �they�? They are Jews, under the Mosaic covenant. Not being under the covenant of grace, they would naturally be offended by a blatant act of (perceived) defiance. However, we, the church, are fully aware of our standing in grace. In fact, we should be offended that our leaders are trying to put the yoke of �works� upon our necks! Grace covers every aspect of our walk with Jesus, including our finances.

    The point is this: Jesus did not pay the �Temple tax� because Jesus is the King of the kingdom. And if �the sons are free,� certainly the King Himself is free. What a telling teaching truth from Scriptures we have here! No wonder most Christians have never heard this Scripture explained in Church.

    Study to show yourself approved.
    #4 – Steven – 02/13/2012 – 15:36

  364. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    You are right. I don’t have to. I only tithe because I want to. Not because I have to. It is my choice.

  365. Robert M. Says:

    Paul you are woefully ignorant of the Word. Then again, I have found this to be the case with every critic of Joseph Prince in America as well. And NEVER SURPRISINGLY, virtually every critic of JP I’ve ever encountered doesn’t tithe and gets upset when the tithe is discussed. So the apple never falls far from the tree with you gang of unbelievers and bomb throwers.

    You take scriptures that have nothing to do with the subject at hand and try twisting them to suit your argument. You are also completely dismissing the Bible accounts regarding the tithe, and treating them as if they are second class scriptures to anything written in the gospels. And all scripture agrees.

    As for you pjac00, no one is ‘tearing anyone down’ other than you guys that are attacking Joseph Prince. And I think I know what Joseph Prince preaches, much better than you. I have several hundred of his sermons on cd and dvd. And I’ve never heard a preacher teach the Bible, with as much scripture and accuracy, as he does. I’m not surprised you don’t attend NCC anymore.

    And Paul no need to pray for me. Pray for yourself actually. Ask the Lord to show you how to cast out the spirit of dumb that is all over you.

  366. Robert M. Says:

    And pjac00 quit trying to sound SUPER SPIRITUAL. You aren’t just a former member of NCC. You are someone trying to camouflage, rather poorly I might add, that you are a critic of Joseph Prince and dislike his church. And I don’t need you to tell me about the splinter in my eye, when you have a huge log in yours. Quit playing games, acting like you are some spiritual referee, when in reality you have nothing good to say about Joseph Prince or NCC.

    If there is one thing I don’t do, is accuse a preacher of being a charlatan, heretic, satan’s helper, etc. And that’s what many of you critics of Joseph Prince do, without using that exact same language. But you try to give people the impression that this man of God is dangerous or misleading people. Which he is not.

    And that’s the fundamental difference between a Christian like you and one like me. If I don’t agree with a preacher or what goes on in a church, I don’t go on the internet or in person to bad mouth them or their church. And that’s what you and that guy Paul, who has the spirit of dumb on him, are doing. I let the Lord sort out his preachers in the ministry. Don’t agree with a preacher? Then don’t agree. But don’t lie about a preacher and suggest to people that he’s dangerous or misleading people, when you don’t even know what you’re talking about.

    People have been doing the same thing in America for years against Joel Osteen, Jerry Savelle, Kenneth E. Hagin…just to name a few. And these are all great preachers who appeal to all kinds of different people. But you are way out of order, bad mouthing these people. So you can drop the Holy Joe Christian act with me, because your comments about JP are actually derogatory attacks against ministry and that puts you on the wrong side of the battle.

  367. pjac00 Says:

    My my Robert, buddy….

    Looks like I struck a nerve there LOL.

    Well, since I’m on a roll, I might as well elaborate a little more….

    It’s clear you follow the teachings only of Health / Wealth teachers like Joel Olsteen, Kenneth Copeland (the self professed billionaire pastor who clearly was able to find a way to serve both Money and God at the same time) and more…

    I reiterate my stance, dear friend, for it clearly says in Timonthy 4:-4 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts (of the eyes and flesh and the pride of life – 1 John 2:16) shall they heap to themselves teachers (prosperity teachers included), having itching ears (to hear feel good sermons); They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

    It’s your life Robby Rob… at the end, you are accountable for yourself.

    ***

    I leave you with this last parable on which reigns supreme in Jesus’s eyes – a) prosperity or b) mercy to the poor and people.

    Matthew 25:31-46 >> Parable of The Sheep and the Goats

    31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

    34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

    37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

    40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

    41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

    44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

    45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

    46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

  368. pjac00 Says:

    Robby Rob, buddy boy…

    The fact that you are incensed over this and cannot even hold a decent discussion with me on this very simple issue demonstrates the fact that you fall into the very category of those who simply CANNOT ENDURE sound doctrine.

    As it says in Timonthy 4:-4 “For the time will come when they WILL NOT ENDURE sound doctrine; but after their own lusts (of the eyes and flesh and the pride of life – 1 John 2:16) shall they heap to themselves teachers (prosperity teachers included), having itching ears (to hear feel good sermons); They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

    You can’t endure it buddy boy, you just can’t stand it… you hate the real gospel. You worship the Prosperity Gospel (also known as the Money Gospel). That’s why you’re in rage right this minute. But, like Kenneth Copeland, you must have found THE SECRET to serving both God and Money.

    I must buy you dinner so that you can share with me your secret on how to serve God and Baal at the same time.

  369. pjac00 Says:

    One last thing Robby Rob…buddy boy…

    I am simply delighted you mentioned Kenneth E Hagin because before he died in 2003, the revered father of the Word-Faith movement corrected his spiritual sons for going to extremes with their message of prosperity.

    He was also not happy that some of his followers were manipulating the Bible to support what he viewed as greed and selfish indulgence.

    Many Word-Faith ministers ignored the book. But in light of the recent controversy over prosperity doctrines, it might be a good idea to dust it off and read it again.

    Here are a few of the points Hagin made in The Midas Touch:

    1. Financial prosperity is not a sign of God’s blessing. Hagin wrote: “If wealth alone were a sign of spirituality, then drug traffickers and crime bosses would be spiritual giants. Material wealth can be connected to the blessings of God or it can be totally disconnected from the blessings of God.”

    2. People should never give in order to get. Hagin was critical of those who “try to make the offering plate some kind of heavenly vending machine.” He denounced those who link giving to getting, especially those who give cars to get new cars or who give suits to get new suits. He wrote: “There is no spiritual formula to sow a Ford and reap a Mercedes.”

    3. It is not biblical to “name your seed” in an offering. Hagin was horrified by this practice, which was popularized in faith conferences during the 1980s. Faith preachers sometimes tell donors that when they give in an offering they should claim a specific benefit to get a blessing in return. Hagin rejected this idea and said that focusing on what you are going to receive “corrupts the very attitude of our giving nature.”

    4. The “hundredfold return” is not a biblical concept. Hagin did the math and figured out that if this bizarre notion were true, “we would have Christians walking around with not billions or trillions of dollars, but quadrillions of dollars!” He rejected the popular teaching that a believer should claim a specific monetary payback rate.

    5. Preachers who claim to have a “debt-breaking” anointing should not be trusted. Hagin was perplexed by ministers who promise “supernatural debt cancellation” to those who give in certain offerings. He wrote in The Midas Touch: “There is not one bit of Scripture I know about that validates such a practice. I’m afraid it is simply a scheme to raise money for the preacher, and ultimately it can turn out to be dangerous and destructive for all involved.”

  370. pjac00 Says:

    Here Robby Rob, I’ll take the liberty to buy you a pacifier when I come meet you for dinner.

    Again, please please share with me the SECRET on how to serve God and Baal at the same time.

    I really really need to know!

    Do I listen to Olsteen? Hagin? Copeland? Prince?

    Or is the secret to cursing at my Christian brothers who disagree with me?

    Please Robby Rob… share with me the secret on how to serve BOTH GOD AND BAAL! Please!

  371. Paul Says:

    pjac00

    I enjoyed that! Thanks for the support! Let’s remember we are not here to hate anyone including Joseph Prince; but to search the Scriptures to know the truth (who is Christ) and to be used of God set others free from Satan’s lies and bondage.

    Rob, let’s not start a mudfight, OK? This isn’t the children’s playground anymore. If you repented for your sins, and trusted in Christ for your new life, WHY would you desire to “have it all”? Having it all and not possessing Christ is a certain ticket to Hell. The only difference is that you go “First Class.” It is NOT possible to possess Christ and to love wealth and prosperity, which can easily become idols.

    Here’s a great quote from the founder of this blog, which makes crystal clear what Chee Seng believes in. I sincerely hope it doesn’t represent what Robert believes: how about it, Rob? (By the way i questioned Chee Seng here some months ago as to whether he will leave this ‘truth’ up here on his blog, to continue snaring unwary souls…and he said ‘what’s wrong with it? Everything i have said on this blog is fine’ or something to that effect.’

    Yeap Chee Seng Says:
    April 30, 2009 at 12:50 am
    Salvation is prosperity. Once you are a Christian, you are destined to be like God. God prospers in every area of his life. Tithing is God’s instrument to make us rich. Through our tithes, we make it clear that we control our money and not the other way round. As long as money is not your master, you cannot help but to be rich.

    Be aware! Avoid the teachings of Yeap Chee Seng and all people like him, who trust in a false gospel.

    Paul

  372. pjac00 Says:

    Robby Rob.. please, you still have not shared with me THE SECRET on how to serve God and Baal (Money) !

    I need you to enlighten us all. PLEASE!!!

  373. Paul Says:

    uh pjac00,

    Great video! Fantastic! How many churches have EVER seen this video??? Is there any way we can pipe it into the video production services at NCC? I am not a software expert; but i am sure technically it is possible, with a small transmitter and an adapted signal schema coder.

    By the way, did you notice how that ignorant man Rob accused me in two posts of being a ‘bomb thrower?’ Why doesn’t he just come out and use some colorful language? Indeed…it is not a right spirit that he is listening to. Rob, if you read this, you should repent of your false accusations. You do know that you will be judged for every idle word, right? Do you even fear the LORD at all?

    This video is slightly confusing (hey Rob, don’t come rushing to judgment, now); because Mr. Kenneth Copeland is double-tongued when he says he ‘is not one of the three billionnaires’ in the roomful of people he is speaking to (can you imagine this taking place in the crowded church Paul was speaking to when that man fell asleep and dropped to the ground?). Just imagine: just three men who control or have actual equity worth more than $3,000,000,000 are sitting in that room. Is that even a church? I am not sure, really…But to the point, Mr. Copeland states he is ‘not’ on of the three mentioned. BUT he IMPLIES that he indeed is worth $1 billion. He then goes on to explain that since the ministry of his church was started 47 (?) years ago, it has received more than $1.3B in contributions (read, ‘tithes and offerings). Hmm. Is there an audited financial statement available, to show this? How about the expenditures of the church/minsitry, are they available to the congregation (as they are in my home church — listen up, Rob)? How about outreach and ministry to the poor; the ‘preaching of the gospel to the whole world’ which is (or should be) a significant part of any Christian ministry. Is that audited? Are there any receipts we can see?

    Guess what! Surprise! Because Mr. Copeland’s ministry is a charity as defined by the Income Tax Act and is defined as a 501C CORPORATION which is NON-TAXABLE, it is NOT required to give ANY audit of its accounts. This means in effect, not even one cent of the offerings, tithes or anything given to Mr. Copeland or his ministry can lawfully be required to undergo an audit. This has been the case for many years. However, mark my words, this practice is soon going to end.

    In order for the anti-Christ (instead of Christ) to begin to rule and to have authority over the whole world in the near future, he (he is a half-she, it appears) he will govern ALL religious organisations in the world. This will mean that the current 501c status of American churches and religious organisations, in particular, will be abolished and replaced with a ‘new and better’ law that will apply globally. Through THAT law, since judgment is to begin at the House of the LORD, we will see (i believe) that ANYONE who tries to buy or sell anything for a church or religious (especially Christian) organisation or purpose, will have no choice but to join with ALL other religious organisations in order to avoid the global new religious tax (or to benefit from it BY joining it).

    Under the new world order church/religion system, all people will then be controlled as to what they can officially believe or not, because it will affect them directly financially (most importantly, those who ‘live off the gospel.”). Christians must become the #1 enemy ‘of God’ in order for their perfected enslavement to begin; this must be a financial enslavement, which controls your actions which are based on your beliefs. I don’t know; but perhaps the US dollar needs to collapse (its collapse has been orchestrated for some decades now, since the US was de facto bankrupt in 1947 — i can provide the Congressional Record article that states this if you like, or just refer to thewebofdebt.com for more details) before the new system can be enforced.

    Rob, i pray your delusion will evaporate soon. Please put your earnings which God has given you to a use which is truly bringing glory to Him: through printing tracts; distributing to the needy saints; teaching others the things that Jesus taught; helping the poor in your neighborhood; visiting the sick and lonely in the hospital (or shut-ins, as my Mom used to do); and giving money to the food bank or your local charities (not Masonic ones) or to help those broken by divorce and suicide. Do you know if even one cent of your money directly goes to any of these activities today, Rob? I am sure the LORD of the Harvest know it!

    But, do you? For we must give account…

    Paul

  374. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    So, the latest trick now is to accuse the Gospel Of Jesus Christ as the “False Gospel”. By extension, you are calling Jesus a false saviour. Is this the beast you have got?

  375. Paul Says:

    Rob, if you are there(?) what do you think of John Hagee? Do you support his ministry? Have any of his books of CD/DVDs?

    I get angry when i read stuff like this:
    https://truelogic.wordpress.com/2010/04/26/jesus-christ-on-john-hagee-tithing-is-unscriptural/

    Rob, get your priorities straight! Born-again Christians do not love the world or the things of the world, they are in love with JESUS and GOD the Father of ALL.

    It seems you do not know “what Spirit you are of.”
    “….But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them….”(Luke 9:55, 56 KJV)
    For “….That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” (John 3:6 KJV).

    If you are of God, you will love the things and the people God loves. You will NOT choose things that John Hagee, Joel Osteen, John Hagee, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Joseph Prince, Oral Roberts, Bill Hybels, Benny Hinn, Jim Bakker, Kenneth Hagin, and many others teach and preach about: namely, TO LOVE THE WORLD AND THE THINGS OF THE WORLD and in so doing, to FORSAKE CHRIST.

    Be not like Demas, for you do err. Repent, pray about what tithing today actually does; pray about what JESUS would ask you about your giving and what He would desire you to do; and we will pray with you so that your fear of lack will never overcome, any more, your desire to love God and to find and do His perfect will, above all other demands and wants that assail us constantly.

    Paul

  376. Paul Says:

    Yup…John Hagee got a “double portion” there!

    Chee Seng, how apt for your to reply at just this moment! Let us not focus on this “gospel” and that “gospel.” Since you REFUSE to change your post about how “tithing is God’s means to make us rich” you are not walking in the Spirit but the flesh. Since you are a Singaporean, like my wife, for some unexplained reason (perhaps severe suffering in your life or the life of those you know), you struggle with the concept of trusting Jesus ABSOLUTELY (i.e. 100% all the time, with all you have or will ever have). I suppose this might explain why you struggle so much with not loving money or chasing after wealth. I implore you, if you are born-again, if you KNOW the Lord Jesus, to repent for your illogical and wrong beliefs about money and wealth. Yes, wealth is a tool and money is a tool; but as Christians we are called by the LORD of ALL to love HIM and JESUS and not idols of wood and stone (have you ever considered that money is made out of wood? That money is made out of stone i.e. gold and silver? OK not the modern plastic money, which is made of oil or synthetics; but do you see my point?

    PLEASE stop teaching people that seeking riches is good and seeking to be wealthy is just fine and quite alright for a Christian, when this is NOT TRUE. At least, there are several warnings that Jesus Himself teaches about AVOIDING the love of money and seeking wealth FOR ITS OWN SAKE. Yes, it is OK to be wealthy, IF the Lord provides and enables you to do so…but if you err and find that your heart loves money much, much more than the LORD and you are spreading a gospel that teaches the world to love money and seek after possessions and you hardly ever mention your love for God, for Jesus, or His Kingdom…then you are not walking in the Spirit…

    Chee Seng, what makes you think you are a Christian? Your words throughout this blog speak volumes that you never repented for your sins, and that you hate the Spirit of Christ and God and, for the love of money, would not find it too too difficult to persecute and crucify Him afresh. It is certainly your hard-hearted attitude to His people!

    I notice you said nothing against anything Robert has said? It speaks volumes about your character and your understanding of what it means to walk in the Spirit and to eschew evil.

    Paul

  377. Mark Says:

    You are been fool by your emotion and intellectual mind. NC is a paganism church. A Pastor leading to idol worshiping.. Most Christians today are not bless people. How can it be when Christian today are so ignorant in God Word holding the Satanic Bibles of the so call New Version.

    NC join the Chingay Parade in the year 2012 holding high on idol worship and declare in New York City at Joel Osteen that beside heavenly Father there is a heavenly Mother.

    Be alert not to be fool by all this preacher.
    1John 2:
    20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

    Read 2Thess 2-12

    Shalom:

  378. Paul Says:

    Hi Mark,
    Yes it is absolutely true what you say about the “new” versions of the Bible. These are not AUTHORISED versions like the King James version, which you can copy, print, and distribute FREELY because it is public domain. These new versions are unavailable to be copied, except as allowed by Copyright: ie they are NOT available to be freely copied and distributed to ALL….though they are portrayed as the FREE Word of God. Hmmm….how SHOCKING to discover, as I did recently, that the Director of Translation for the NIV Bible version, is a homosexual. Whether he is practising or not (has anal sex with men or engages in fellatio) is besides the point! He is and was the Director of Translation for the entire Old Testament — AND THE TRANSLATION COMMITTEE KNEW IT. Apart from this, another woman in charge of Translation and Stylistics on the Translation Committee is a LESBIAN. How on earth can the PRODUCT of the Holy God be honestly represented by souls in bondage to their lusts? I speak gently, because i myself can be tempted like anyone; but is it right and true that this is allowed? Would you PURCHASE such a Bible, and TEACH it to others? Don’t believe me?
    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/niv_sodomite_on_committee.htm

    But, to clarify, i have learned a great deal from Pastor Prince’s sermons about the extent to which Jesus loves me. He has expanded on texts in the Old and New Testaments with such depth and light, that it is clear he is gifted with a spirit of knowledge and revelation, such that i have been greatly encouraged in my walk as a Christian, to know Jesus better and to desire to walk more closely with Him and to eschew evil. For this I commend him (and he uses the King James Version almost exclusively, so that is good!). But, when Joseph Prince starts blathering on about how to get rich ‘God’s way’ or any such thing (not that he touches often on this topic), i tune him out. When he speaks or sings, rather, in “tongues” (which nobody in the church of 20,000 listeners can understand…so it means he could be praising Satan, for all we ignorant attendees know!), i tune him out. When Joseph Prince misinterprets or twists Scriptures to justify that a Christian ‘need not ever worry again about God being angry about his or her sin including future sins (unplanned and unknown yet but potential), and encourages people including in the congregation, for there must be some, SINNERS WHO HAVE NEVER ACKNOWLEDGED CHRIST OR THEIR DESERVED PUNISHMENT FOR THEIR TRANGRESSIONS OF THE LAW OF GOD, and belittles the grievousness of chosen sin to God…i pray for him, that he would repent. First there MUST be TRUE sorrow for sin and TRUE repentance, not just a ‘change of mind’ but a change of HEART…second, there MUST be a work of the Holy Spirit that is known as REGENERATION, which Joesph Prince not once has mentioned in the two years i have watched and heard his sermons at the Star Centre in Singapore…not once! And THEN after TRUE REPENTANCE the soul is BORN AGAIN (or rather, this is something DONE by the Holy Spirit, who begins the work of regeneration itself! Praise God!)

    I have been blessed by the Word of God that has been expanded on by Joseph Prince…some if his illustrations and clarifications on what and who Jesus is to the believer…are the best i have heard in 25 years! HOWEVER, the man needs to repent for teaching people not to seek true regeneration and for belittling or ignoring the POWER OF GOD which converts souls by CONVICTION OF SIN, RIGHTEOUSNESS and JUDGMENT TO COME, which is a grievous omission even if ONE lost sheep is in that huge congregation of 20,000 plus the millions who are listening through videolink or Joseph Prince’s TV sermons.

    To summarise, we Christians need to be fed! We need to spend time chewing on and digesting the Word…and it is right to spend time with other believers at least once a week. However…we need to seek out where the Lord wants us to feed; where He wants us to grow and learn from Him, and where to serve Him in the “field.” I think also, we need to choose our food carefully, and highlight false teaching whetever it appears, to help to make sure that Jesus is not cheated of a holy and spotless Bride, by thieves, liars and deceivers who peddle lies and call it truth.

    Joseph Prince does appear to know and love the Lord; and i sincerely hope a man of such influence indeed does. However…why does he fellowship with shallow preachers like Joel Osteen? What about his praise for Kenneth Copeland and Ken Hagin? The evidence against these men that they are spiritually deceived seems to be irrefutable. This means either Joseph Prince is naive and ignorant of the depths to which Satan is involved inside the power structures of what is known in the world as the Christian Church; or he is willingly deceived, which has far more dangerous and destructive implications.

    We ought to pray for Joseph Prince, that he would not destroy the Church through ignorance, foolishness, willingly ignoring the truth and even despising it in order to receive the praises of men (naively or knowingly); for the destruction of his family and all that he has achieved in the Name of the Most High, will be thorough, extensive, and complete before the entire world.

    Paul

  379. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    This is getting more fun.

    The director of NIV Bible is a homosexual.
    Therefore NIV Bible is evil!
    Anyone who reads it goes to hell.

  380. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Paul, I don’t have to teach anyone that wanting to be rich is basic responsibility as a human being. Every human being with functional brains (this includes most Christians) know of this truth. No one in the right mind loves money. What is money anyway? Papers with pictures? I am not interested in having stacks of papers.

    Paul, what makes you think you are a Christian? Because you fulfil your silly criteria of Christianity? Here is the truth. I become a Christian by choice. My blogs speaks of my sincerity on being repented from sins and my life of righteousness.

    What did Robert say that you think I should respond to? If I don’t I am evil? Another creative judge.

  381. pjac00 Says:

    Paul, I think it best not to respond to Chee Seng on this.

    CS is set in his ways already with a seared conscience.

    Dont waste your time, friend. Your time is better spent elsewhere.

  382. Yoyo Says:

    To Robert M

    Robert M reminds me of one of those guys in the bible who went up to the temple telling God about how good he was e.g. telling God that he tithes while the other man would not dare even look up to heaven but said “God be merciful to me – a sinner”

    Christianity is not about how much money you give to people but more about the motive – Why do you give? So many people give out of guilt and fear. If we give things to others because of guilt and fear, then its not love at all and we have no reward.

  383. hun Says:

    Its all about money. Should we listen to the pastor and buy his book to make him even richer?

  384. hun Says:

    The Gospel of Money . What do people think about this church too?

  385. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Men pleasers care about what people think.
    God pleasers care about what God thinks.

  386. pjac00 Says:

    Yeap Chee Seng Says:
    March 7, 2014 at 5:47 am

    Men pleasers care about what people think.
    God pleasers care about what God thinks.
    ***

    You know what God thinks Chee Seng?
    What’s in His mind?
    The secrets he created within the Bible, on Earth and in the Heavens?
    Suggestion – You should sign up to be God too.

  387. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    No need. All you need to know is God is not a pervert. His mind is not so sick that he had to derive glory from people’s poverty and sickness.

  388. pjac00 Says:

    Yeap Chee Seng Says:
    March 7, 2014 at 5:59 am

    No need. All you need to know is God is not a pervert. His mind is not so sick that he had to derive glory from people’s poverty and sickness.

    ***

    That, Chee Seng, is one of the most distasteful ways of EVEN NOT describing the Most High God.

    Not only does it sound coarse, it sounds so typically unintelligent and narrow minded. Why? Because you fail to consider how God gains glory from rich AND poor, from healthy AND sick. Not forgetting ◄ 1 Corinthians 1:27 ► “But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.”

    I suppose this sick man who serves as a shining example to all healthy Christians on what it means to be contented with life, does not bring glory to God?

    Once again Chee Seng, you have proven how unintelligent, narrow minded and blind and you are to the simple phrase that God can choose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise and bring glory to His own name.

  389. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Now I know why you choose to be a fool. You want God to use you to shame the wise. What a godly fool you are.

  390. pjac00 Says:

    Lol Chee Seng Chee Seng, what a low minded response to a simple subject.

    God uses both rich AND poor, healthy AND sick to bring glory to his name.

    You only want to believe the rich and healthy part. You choose to completely ignore the poor and sick component and how God is flexible and brings glory in ANY and EVERY circumstance.

    You have a good weekend Ah Seng LOL.

  391. Paul Says:

    In reponse to Hun,
    “The Gospel of Money. What do people think about this church too?”

    Wowwwww…i didn’t think i was being prophetic in my statements above (https://cheee.wordpress.com/about/#comment-5305) about the rapidly approaching revocation of ‘tax free status for religious organisations.’ But there it is, in this current video about Hillsong from Hun.

    Chee Seng, don’t abandon hope that all Christians are hypocrites pretending not to want money; or pretending that they are ‘super-spiritual’ and love God and not money. Even the best of us Christians would love to have $millions. And, no, we are not so foolish to earnestly desire that God should enforce sickness or poverty on us, so that we can somehow become more ‘spiritual.’

    Catholic doctrine (to give one example) emphasizes abstinence from the lusts of the flesh; it even emphasizes flaggelation (where a person purposefuly beats himself or herself or starves; or does any other number of punishments) in order to somehow become more ‘holy’ or more ‘pleasing’ to God. But God isn’t interested in works of the flesh, inspired by the flesh, that seek to build up ‘merit’ and ‘righteousness’ to your account before Him. Nothing of the flesh can please God. So, please stop trying.

    Trust the LORD that He will prosper you in all things ACCORDING TO HIS WILL and be willing to SUBJECT yourself to WHATEVER His will may be. Trust Him for your wealth, when you have none; trust Him for your health; when you are sick; and trust Him for your life partner, good friends (both Christian and not) and colleagues to work with.

    God loves you Chee Seng; and i believe He will direct and guide you to the full truth, and give you the grace to receive it, at the right time (i.e. when you are ready…you may not even know when that time is).

    Don’t let your mind be perverted with ‘another gospel’ which is not the gospel that Christ taught, which is ‘this gospel of the Kingdom.’

    Please re-read that. Jesus is coming back; He is coming with legions of angels and He will be with us (depending on whether we die before He returns or not, first). This is the point of being a Christian, not living like a ‘true Christian’ (for who can define what that standard is?) because to seek to live according to others’ rules and regulations can only, at best, turn you into a Great Jew; or a Great Muslim or a Great Hindu (like Ghandi). But that is not the will of God.

    The will of God is for us to be in love with Him and to learn to forget the love of the world and its passing fashions, wealth, and lusts…and to learn to focus our beliefs and heart desires on being with Jesus for ever.

    Personally, if you have not yet gained a taste for Jesus, that draws you out of yourself and makes you yearn for eternity with Him…then you have some growing to do…(but again, don’t listen to me or my standards…they are going to be quite faulty): listen to the quiet and still voice of God, as He seeks to walk in your life and to influence your circumstances for Him.

    It’s NOT about the money. It’s NOT about the ‘bling, bling’ and ‘ka-ching, ka-ching’. It’s NOT about what this world lives for. And when Joseph Prince states ‘It’s NOT ABOUT YOU’ he is not telling the whole truth. IT IS ABSOLUTELY ABOUT YOU!!!!! God gave EVERYHTHING HE COULD EVER GIVE to POSSESS YOU….HIS FINEST CREATION….so trust Him…believe in Him…and forget all those bad Christian examples you have heard about or seen.

    Trust in Christ; and you will be blessed. You may even become very wealthy…but never forget to be humble and to trust in Christ.

    “Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord. “(Jeremiah 17:5 KJV). This means do not trust in lying and deceiving spirits, especially those who are within supposed Christian people or even supposed ministers if God. Trust in God alone; no matter how alone that makes you or how many people forsake you.

    “If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”
    (2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV). This means: trust in the LORD and in all your ways learn to choose His will and that means forsaking and repenting from choosing evil things…though it is not easy to overcome…and if you will do these things (and we Christians can ONLY do that by the power of God dwelling within us, as new creations), then you are truly blessed. Blessings are not only material things, though that does happen.

    Paul
    P.s. i hope the dry season in Singapore is over soon: i think most of the grass is dead!

  392. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I can’t help it. God has made me a non pervert.

  393. Mr2Timothy4V2 Says:

    “Servant Said
    January 7, 2014 at 5:37 am
    Mr2Timothy4V2
    When has the Pope ever asked people to worship himself rather than Jesus Christ?”

    Reply: The pope makes one worship him above Yahshua and Yahuah the father when he abrigates Yahuah’s law and tells one to took keep his catholic pagan tradition such as Xmas, Eostre SUNday, Mary Worship etc.

    JP does the same when he tells men they are free of ALL of YHWH’s law. He becomes that person’s master and that person then worships JP and ultimately satan.

    11 Peter 1:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Yahshua Messiah, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

  394. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Very creative.

  395. Mr2Timothy4V2 Says:

    Yeap
    says he looks forward to his earthly rewards.
    So Yeap what are you saying, are you talking like Cain?
    Jude 1:11
    Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for REWARD(EARTHLY), and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

    Please take lessons from scripture rather than your idol JP.
    Heb 11:26
    24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter; 25 Choosing RATHER to SUFFER AFFLICTION with the people of YHWH, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season(TEMPORARY REWARD); 26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ GREATER riches(FUTURE SPIRITUAL) than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward (FUTURE SPIRITUAL). 27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible (FUTURE SPIRITUAL).

    II Peter 2:13
    And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
    12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that CANNOT CEASE FROM SIN (TRANSGRESSION OF YHWH”S LAW); beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15 Which have FORSAKEN THE RIGHT WAY (TORAH), and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

    JP tells you
    you cannot inherit the blessings of God if you try to keep the commandments so why are you keeping the tithe commandment????

    I think you need time to really think about this cult you are following.
    Tithes are levitcal for temple, sacrifice service-the temple system for atonement is done away with by the new ministration , the law of YHWH (Torah) has not been done away with.

    John 15:10
    If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments (Torah), and abide in his love.
    JP never talks about the foundational message of the gospel of THE KINGDOM -read those parables sir.

    Matthew 13:22
    He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

    Mark 4:19
    And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

    Luke 8:14
    And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

    THAT is the gospel of the Kingdom not the gospel of JP’s NCC earthly kingdom. Choose who you will serve.

  396. Mr2Timothy4V2 Says:

    Yes the Pharisees like the pope and JP were all very creative when they invented their own laws, traditions and destined to reign philosophies in order to make void Yahuah’s law. Creativity is always more popular like Hellenistic (greek) philosophy in Yahshua’s day, the latest trend of man’s thinking. That is why the Talmud has volumes and volumes of man’s tradition while it makes void the Torah. That is why catholic cannon law has volumes of man’s pagan law all because men will not bow to YHWH’s law. JP has to become more and more creative in tickling men’s ears but soon he will run out of ideas and covetous men will ditch him for their next ear tickler.
    Likewise Yahshua thought the Phairsees were very creative in fact he said they would go over land and sea to make such a so-called convert who is then twice the child of hell. There are two things worse than a true believer: A non-believer and then there is one who professes to be a believer but is a hypocrite by not obeying the Master’s commands. The latter is twice the child of hell. That is why we are commanded to have nothing to do with such a one and to remove that wicked one from among us.
    I Corinthians 5:11
    11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

    Let’s avoid the creative philosophies of man and obey The Creator and His Laws, let’s obey the Lord of the Sabbath who made heaven and earth and who made you and me to serve and obey him.

    Ecclesiastes 12:13
    ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear Yahuah, and keep HIS commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

  397. kaniz Says:

    Brian Houston’s gospel of money is classic example of the scripture:

    ” who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain”.(1 Tim 6:5)

    and in contrast to Brian Houston of Hillsong church –

    Then Peter said, Silver and gold HAVE I NONE ; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

    My two cents –

    This is what Peter is saying to those who are outside the temple. You don’t need those people inside to give you something. God himself can provide and heal your heart to make you walk in his ways again. God is not confined to a room with 4 walls and an organisation. He is close to all of us and we are told not to look for the Christ here and there.. because we will not find him there

    for the kingdom of God is within you and among you.

    Open your eyes and walk in the truth. Do good to others, live an honest life, don’t form a habit if telling lies, try to care about others (not just yourself) and stop boasting about what you have done and what you have, which is the way of the world. Instead of boasting, let people see heaven in your actions donee in reverence for God within the confines of your own secret room with him.

  398. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    For some strange reasons my blog has been attracting religious hypocrites.

  399. pjac00 Says:

    Kaniz,

    Thank you for that lovely piece of writing, which, unfortunately, gives too much credit to Yeap Chee Seng’s shallow and narrow minded blog. I liken the situation to a beautiful gold ring (your writing) on a pig’s snout (Chee Seng’s mind, reflected in his low-level, coarse, unintelligent garbage expressed in his own blog)

  400. Pistis Sophia Says:

    I once listened to a sermon by a pastor where he was practically saying the evil one is stupid and defeated and that we should not be bothered by him. I do not believe this after all my time as believer in the Most High, knowing how so many times I’ve been deceived about things, being a person who once easily followed people who say they love God. Much later on in life, I’ve been persuaded that evil is terribly deceptive and strong, strong enough to be a powerful delusion, an angel of light, a minister of righteousness, a good friend, a bringer of glad tidings, a comforter, a teacher and even a Judas Iscariot among us sharing our own bread but people cannot see it because it is like a massive flood that comes so fast it overwhelms and drowns everyone. It cannot be recognised by the flesh. Something happens to people and they are overcome by stealth and they wonder how they lost their clean heart, their sincere faith. Well, it was smothered, killed and buried. But thanks be to God who is able to raise the dead!

    How can you believe that God raised Jesus from the dead unless you yourself have died in this life and been raised? Death is always accompanied with suffering, so do you think that you will escape “the way” which is the WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS when you say you follow Jesus but don’t want to share in his sufferings and then his glory? The resurrection is not a biblical fact but the truth and life. The gospel is not just about death on a cross but also about resurrection life and ultimate ascension. Pay heed to the Acts of the Apostles on the DAY, see that Peter had a revelation about who was deceiving many. Don’t just read about the power of the Spirit like a careless charismatic who has no respect for the spirit of prophecy that accompanies such manifestations.

    It says in the scripture that Eve was beguiled (it means TRICKED) and so do we really think that the serpent appears as darkness? No! The evil one appears as a messenger of righteousness, an angel of light to BEGUILE God’s children – to TRICK God’s children.

    So, the Lord teaches us to pray ” Deliver us from the Evil One”

    It is a good prayer from the heart and the will of God for his children to be delivered from the hands of the evil one.

    May God bless those of you who are earnestly seeking him with clarity!

  401. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Pistis,
    Here is the basic. Believe is a choice. You decide for yourself at the time of conversion. Once you made it, the deal is done.

    Never allow anyone especially the hyppcrites add in conditions like if you truly believe you must do X.

    Those are agents of demons from the pit of hell.

    A Christian life is be holy because you are holy. Whatever deeds you do, you do it because you want to. Not because you have to.

    Never allow those scums to threaten you that if you don’t follow their heresy, you go to hell.

  402. Servant Says:

    Mr2Timothy4V2: “Reply: The pope makes one worship him above Yahshua and Yahuah the father when he abrigates Yahuah’s law and tells one to took keep his catholic pagan tradition such as Xmas, Eostre SUNday, Mary Worship etc.”

    Christmas – Then why is there documented evidence that 25 December was already significant to Christians as early as the 4th century? In the writings of Hyppolytus of Rome, he explains in his Commentary on the book of Daniel (c. A.D. 204) that the Lord’s birth was believed to have occurred on that day:

    “For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, but from Adam, five thousand and five hundred years. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls.”

    ‘Mary worship’ – This is an often repeated, tired accusation that in reality, does not exist anywhere in Catholic doctrine or worship practices.

    Esotre Sunday – I have never heard of it.

    So you may want to check your facts before accusing the Pope of doing things that he doesn’t do. Bottomline is – if the Pope tries to become Jesus, he will lose his job of being his representative here on earth 🙂

  403. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Even the poverty antigospel worshippers are quarrelling among themselves.

  404. Servant Says:

    Chee Seng – one can say the same of the money worshippers too, no?

  405. Paul Says:

    Hi Servant,
    In your own text reference it says “….He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th.’ That means (if this interpretation or writing by Hyppolytus is true or to be accepted as fact, which is not necessarily so) that Jesus was crucified on March 25th — not December 25th. But, so what? I DON’T follow the Pope who is not even a born-again believer; he is a believer in the doctrines of men. I celebrate Christmas on December 25th because it gives me a chance to reach unbelieverss; and to remember what Jesus did for me; and to give. Please explain how celebrating Christmas on December 25th instead of March 25th is in any way a Pagan thing to do; or, how doing this somehow is ‘following’the Pope or Catholicism? Should we follow the 7th-Day Adventist cult, a crowd of legalists who think because they have the ‘right tradition’ or the ‘legal” truth spouted by Mary Baker Eddy (Christ, Scientist) that they alone of the world’s 6.5 000,000,000 people are going to be with Jesus??? Your diatribe isn’t helpful, especially to Chee Seng, who needs to know the love of God, not more useless works of religionists’ tradition and empty laws.

  406. Paul Says:

    Yeap Chee Seng Says:
    March 9, 2014 at 11:01 pm
    Pistis,
    Here is the basic. Believe is a choice. You decide for yourself at the time of conversion. Once you made it, the deal is done….Never allow anyone especially the hyppcrites add in conditions like if you truly believe you must do X.

    A Christian life is be holy because you are holy. Whatever deeds you do, you do it because you want to. Not because you have to. Never allow those scums to threaten you that if you don’t follow their heresy, you go to hell.

    Paul replies:
    Hi Yeap, i agree with you. But i wish to encourage you that (perhaps you also accept this, so i apologise if you do) that there is a belief which a man can have in his mind; but it is not from the heart nor was it created or given as a gift or experienced as a regeneration from God. What do i mean? I thought i was a Christian because i read the Bible and prayed to God and sought to obey the 10 Commandments. It was not until about a year later that i was ‘born-again.’ This is NOT something a person can do; it is an EXPERIENCE which is driven by and comes only through the Holy Spirit. Most people alive today and many ‘Christians’ think they are born-again, when they only made a mental assent to believing in Christ, or signed a card or made some prayer of confession at some point. This is a good step; but such steps by no means are a guarantee that a soul is born again.

    Secondy, you write ‘A Christian life is holy because you are holy.’ What do you mean by ‘holy’? I remember this verse: ‘Be ye holy, FOR I AM HOLY SAITH THE LORD.’

    From the New Testament:
    “But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. (1 Peter 1:15, 16 KJV)

    Yeap, are we as Christians supposed to obey these words, or not? Are we holy because we trust in Christ; or are we holy because we obey the Spirit? or, as some fools think, are we holy because we have some form of holiness dwelling within? We ARE made holy (which means ‘separated to God for His use alone’ if we are truly born-again; but (and i am not ADDING any requirement to you here) IF we are indeed born-again, we will SEEK to walk in the Spirit (obey the Spirit) and that is SEEN by others; we will stop swearing constantly; we will stop smoking and getting drunk; we will seek to keep our bodies and minds clean from the ‘pollutions of the world’ such as idolatry and the love of money, lying and stealing, etc. IF we say that we are holy (separated to God’s use alone) and DO NOT have ANY evidence in our life that this is indeed TRUE…then i ask you Chee Seng, HOW do you KNOW that your belief at your conversion is REAL and not just something of your own making?? How can you be SURE it is from God; and not man?

    Only God is truly holy.
    But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children’s children; To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them. (Psalms 103:17, 18 KJV). Yeap, i guess you feel that we should not BOTHER about this passage, or MANY like it, in both the Old and New Testaments? Then our Bible will be very ‘holy’ (full of holes).

    I believe in Jesus, but like it or not, Jesus taught people to keep God’s commandments; He was very angry with the Pharisees BECAUSE they portrayed themselves as those who kept the commandments of God but they DID NOT; in fact, they seemed to delight in finding creative ways to ‘keep the commandments’ while, at the same time, getting what their flesh wanted (regardless of what God wanted or had asked them to do). But, i do not believe that Jesus is merely seeking to make us ‘righteous’ people of God (i.e. ‘better Pharisees’) no, not at all! I believe Jesus came to give us the GIFT of eternal life — the life of God,, as Pastor Prince explains quite well — so that we can become the TRUE children of God.

    Beware those who say they are Jews (or Christians); but they are not. They are the Synagogue of Satan. Please be aware, for the sake of your eternal destiny…to AVOID people who profess to be true Christians but who are devoid of the Spirit (speaking in tongues or not). I don’t mean avoid them in terms of trying to save them; but do not alloww them to DECEIVE you and then you start doing the same EVIL THINGS THAT THEY DO…including thinking that with huge sums of mooney, they can BUY the favor of God (if that were true, Satan himself would do it!).

    I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. (Revelation 2:9 KJV).

    Cheers!

    Paul

  407. Servant Says:

    Paul

    I did say that the early Christians celebrated Christmas on 25 Dec (as you have mentioned), no?

    It is your choice whether to follow the Pope’s teachings or not, though it may be a tad ridiculous to claim that he is ‘not even a born-again believer’. Have you been privy to his life and spiritual journey?

    It is Chee Seng’s choice whether he chooses to consider alternative viewpoints or not. But from what has transpired on this blog, I must say it seems doubtful that your method has worked any better.

  408. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Paul,

    I am sympathise with you for your 1 year trial period. As for me, I was saved the moment I believed. And I did not even know about the 10 commandments then. The preacher never said anything about it. Today I still don’t obey the 10 Commandments.

    I do not commit murder because I don’t want to, not because the 10 Commandments tell me to.
    I only love God because I believe he is good (not in a perverse way), not because I was threatened with hell if I don’t.

    You see, a Christian life is doing things out of our hearts. We do things because we want to and not because we were forced to. This is the line that separates true and false Christians.

  409. Paul Says:

    Hi Yeap,

    Thanks for your prompt reply.

    I really appreciate what you have said, because that in essence is what i believe: true Christians (who seem so few and so hard to find!) do not believe in “keeping the 10 Commandments” because they received, at conversion, a new nature. Maybe during my ‘one year trial period’ i did not know that i believed in Jesus; it might have taken a year for me to actually understand that. But it doesn’t matter: my experience was that God worked powerfully in me for about one year before i truly believed in Jesus; such that, it came to a point where I HAD to DECIDE whether i would trust in Christ, repent for my old way of life (living purely according to what i decided was an OK way to live) or, ask Jesus to really come into my heart, sit on the throne of my life, and lead me into all truth and control my decisions…so that my life would purposefully bring hope and life to others, would align to the will of God (rather than being a useless life that served only the will of my flesh and the will of men).

    Sorry for my wordy response: i suspected you are deeper than your blogroll evidences and i am so glad that you said these really good words! So, if you mean that you are not a ‘pervert’ because you believe in the gift of a new nature from God, through the Spirit of Christ dwelling within you…then i totally agree with you. I also am not a pervert…i do not believe in Jesus because i am afraid of Hell or punishment…but because He gave me the gift of faith to do so.

    May God use you to frighten, challenge, shock, compell, and persuade others back towards Himself, by whatever means(!) so their minds will be fully recovered…and they will understand the truth of Christ, and the power of God…not to ‘keep the Commandments” but, to know and understand Him, which is eternal life; and to repent if they have CHOSEN to be perverts (rather than choosing to live by faith).

    As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. (John 17:2, 3, 6 KJV)

    Sorry to ask a question though…i don’t understand what Jesus means in the final sentence, by “…and they have kept Thy word.” Surely Jesus does NOT mean ‘kept Your commandments.” But, what does He mean? (It’s not a trick question! I really don’t know…). But, i would be interested in your answer, Yeap! Myself, i think it means ‘they have chosen not to be perverts’ but, it may also mean ‘they have chosen to love You…and to follow You for ever, no matter what.”

    Cheers!
    Paul

  410. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I tell you the truth. I never keep God’s commandments at all. I just do what my heart’s desire. I don’t murder because I don’t want to do it. I don’t steal because I don’t want to. It has nothing to do with my intention to obey the 10 Commandments because I don’t. So, do you think I will go to hell for obeying the 10 Commandments unintentionally?

  411. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Paul,

    One more thing to add. Jesus never controlled any of my decisions. If I want to sin, I can still do it. Jesus never create an invisible force field to stop me if I were to choose to sin. True holiness will never come from being forced not to sin because of being blackmailed with hell. True holiness is the situation where I can choose to do what I want and still choose holiness.

  412. Servant Says:

    Chee Seng

    Are you certain that what your heart desires is what God wants? Have you ever been tempted to do something against God?

  413. Paul Says:

    Dear Yeap,
    Sorry for the delayed response! My contract ended recently and i am looking for new opportunities vocationally. To reply very briefly to what you asked (after some thought, mind you), of course nobody will go to Hell for “not keeping the ten commandments.” Certainly, no believing, born-again Christian believes that! Anyone who tries to tell you that you WILL is a hypocrite, a religionist (also a hypocrite), deceived and deceiving others; ignorant of the Scriptures; ignorant of what the Lord Jesus actually taught or Whom He actually is; has no relationship at all with Jesus (but perhaps thinks they do); or all of these. As you rightly said, being a Christian is from the heart; by sincere faith in Christ “….which works by love….out of a pure heart.”
    “Whereas the object and purpose of our instruction and charge is love, which springs from a pure heart and a good (clear) conscience and sincere (unfeigned) faith. (1 Timothy 1:5 AMP)”

    Christians, like everyone else on this planet and everyone who ever lived since Adam and Eve, cannot ever keep the Commandments. That is WHY the LORD sent Jesus Christ:
    “….Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (Hebrews 7:25 KJV).”

    Nobody on this planet who is alive today faces Judgment from God because they broke the Commandments; but because they (if they do) reject knowing Him via the only means of salvation given to us, which is Christ (as you have rightly said, Yeap). I don’t know what happens to those who were born before (in the thousands of years since Adam); what happens to the babies killed in the womb; what happens to souls who never heard the gospel. That’s a discussion for another time.

    But the Apostles and disciples bet their lives (and in most cases lost them in quite awful ways, including being ‘sawn in half’) to DEFEND THIS TRUTH AND THE FACT that JESUS IS THE CHRIST (Christ means SAVIOR). If the millions of Christians who have lived since the time of Jesus (often suffering and dying in awful ways, as just mentioned) were wrong in their sincere belief; if the whole truth of the New Testament is a mere fabrication; and Jesus is a ‘myth’ as some shallow thinkers assert even today, then we cannot be born again and we are all headed for either oblivion and nothingness; or we are going to go to Heaven or Hell.

    My understanding, after it was enlightened by God in 1987, is that He indeed is real, there indeed is a Judgment for every soul that CHOOSES not to believe in Jesus; and there is an eternal life to experience and have, which is the free gift of God to all those who believe in Jesus and in God. But, as Pastor Hyles so rightly says, there CANNOT be a Heaven without a HELL.

    Sinners who refuse to trust in Christ and die in their sins, have no recourse. For there to be one, it would be extremely unfair of God, since He allowed so many of those early believers to suffer so much, for His Great Name. Don’t believe in HELL? Try living with someone who is psychotic! Try to reason with a drug lord, who sees nothing wrong in utterly ruining the lives whom God created.

    My ‘long speech’ ends here. Yeap, i agree with you that IF we are born again, we do not want to sin. I believe He asked those who trusted in the Law (such as the rich young man) to “keep the commandments” but, in effect, He was actually asking that young man NOT to keep the commandments; but to test him, and so that theyoung man would DISCOVER that ONLY Jesus can actually DO THAT…and then, on fully realising this, that rich young man (we can only hope!) will repent for trying to fulfill what God desires, through his own reasoning, flesh and willpower…instead of ‘resting in Christ’ and His glorious finished work.

    Cheers!
    Paul

  414. Paul Says:

    Sorry about that! I meant to include some excellent teaching materials i have been introduced to recently from Pastor Hyles:
    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Sermons/Dr%20Jack%20Hyles/

  415. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Servant,

    Who told you I am certain my heart’s desire is what God wants? I only said I never obeyed the 10 Commandments. I do not obey the commandment that says do not murder because I have no intention to murder in the first place. Likewise for my other desires like not stealing, not dwelling in hate nor unforgiveness etc. I repeat, a Christian life is doing good because you want to, not because you have to.

    Temptations, of course. As Christians we overcome temptations because it is our heart’s desire, not because we are forced to. God has never force people to do what he wants. He is big enough to allow choices.

  416. John Says:

    Paul

    I used to believe exactly the same as you that you cannot keep the commandments until later on in life when I came to cherish them. If the commandments are understood in the flesh, then they bring sin and death (letter kills) but if you see the commandments acted out in a person, through the Spirit – they bring life. Jesus is an example of the fulfilment of the law (the true meaning of it) and he is come to show us the way to the Father through his actions . If we have the same actions as Jesus, then we are showing the way to the Father through our lives.

    Old and Modern day Pharisees and Saducees understand the commandments only from a technical perspective but not in a spiritual way. There is nothing wrong with what they and teach technically – even Jesus tells us to listen to what they say and obey it but NOT to do what they do (Mt. 23)

    It is the Spirit of God who illuminates the law of God and makes it precious.

    Its the difference between a person coming to you and telling you God loves you with his mouth vs another who does not need to mention God but just loves you because they love you…

  417. Paul Says:

    Hi John,
    I am not too sure where you are going with this. You mean to tell me you actually believe that not only is it possible for people to keep the ten commandments (by the way, there are not only ten…there are more than six hundred, if you count properly); but that you believe that you,
    personally, have kept them, or that you can do so? How about the first commandment, to love God “with ALL your heart, soul, mind, and strength.” Tell me, John, at what precise point can you be sure that you have loved God with ALL of your being? How about the second commandment, to “love your neighbor as yourself.”?

    Everyone around you could be considered to be your “neighbor.” So, have you spoken to all the people you know, and all those you meet, about the eternal judgment they are condemmned under, if they are not a believer in Jesus? Have you shown them the same love you have for yourself, if they are poor, sick, convicted of a crime, in prison, or homeless or begging? Can you please explain how you managed to measure how well you have kept such commandments?

    The Lord Jesus, the Word of God/the Bible, and the Apostles and discples and millions of Christians since the time Jesus walked this planet teach us that the commandments are a schoolmaster, who leads us to Christ. At the point your soul is born again, when you are converted, you understand in your heart that the law is designed to lead you to Jesus, who will (if you allow Him) come INTO YOUR HEART as the Holy Spirit. When that happens, you are born again; and you KNOW that you do not need to follow commandments anymore, for the One who created all things will lead you into all truth, and give you the grace to please God.

    It is impossible to please God without faith; and faith in keeping the commandments, which hundreds of millions (or rather, several bullioms) of Catholics, Muslims, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Buddhists (to some extent); and Jews today actually do believe, is misplaced faith and can ot please God.

    God is love: He is not interested in a bunch of fools trying to keep a bunch of ancient laws that can just as easily be enforced by a civil government or dictatorship.

    Paul
    p.s. none of the above is to be construed to mean you can simply ignore the Commandments of God and sin (contravene them) as much as you please, without consequence. Those who are born again have a new nature and are a new creation; they will not desire to repeatedly and continually sin against God and despise His law. However, if you are not born again and Christ does not dwell in you by faith, then you do not belong to God or Christ and, you will face the judgment of Hell if you continue to despise God, His law; and His propitiary sacrifice which He has provided for all time, to blot out the transgressions of all men who choose to believe in Christ.

  418. Servant Says:

    Paul, I’m curious about 2 questions:

    In your opinion, are the “hundreds of millions (or rather, several bullioms) of Catholics, Muslims, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Buddhists (to some extent); and Jews today” bound for hell because of their “misplaced faith”?

    Is it possible for a “born again Christian” to consciously sin against God?

  419. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I am not surprise that carnal Christians will cling to those commandments as though they are capable in saving them. They can never understand that if those commandments can save Jesus died for nothing. However, once you are transformed you have no need for them anymore. The commandment that says do not murder is totally useless to those with no intention to murder. It is only useful to those who has the desire to commit murder.

  420. Paul Says:

    Hi Servant,

    Tried to reply yesterday but the blog took a long time to load (sorry, Yeap…i posted some rather too long comments before!). As for your two questions, Servant, sorry first of all about the typo: of course, i meant “billions” not “bullioms.” Secondly, the only person who ever kept the commandments (and there are at least 600, not ten, if you count correctly) is Jesus. This is why we trust in Him and believe in Him. If you are a born-again Christian, you would understand (or someone should have shared with you by now) that Jesus Christ came to give us the “power to be the sons of God.” This can only happen when your soul is converted from the error of its ways and, through a mysterious process, you are enabled by grace to believe the truth about Jesus and you actually believe — take at face value — His teachings, in particular, that “no man comes unto the Father except by Me….” and that eternal life is impossible unless Christ dwells in you:

    “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6 KJV)”

    “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Revelation 3:20 KJV)”

    The punishment of those who do evil (works) vs those who do good (works):

    “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:29 KJV)”

    I won’t quote endlessly but i quoted the above because these verses make it clear that Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, most Catholics (this makes up at least 60 per cent of the world population) and of course, athiests or communists (in China, about 1.2 billion people) which makes up another 25 percent probably, will not inherit the Kingdom of God and Christ, not because they do evil things — which all of us as unbelievers did before we were born again, and our hearts were changed and we understood who God is, who Christ is, and the truth that we must die to our own will and its lusts, and those of the unbelieving world; and allow the Spirit of God to walk and live within us, i.e. the Spirit of Christ, and be led of Him to do good in the world, instead of living a life of sin, which we would have done if we had never been born again.

    I hope i have answered your two questions? Yes, the vast majority of the world population today is condemmned in their rejection of Christ, implicitly or explicitly (how many people have you tried to share Christ with? How many sincere and pious Muslims, Jews, Catholics, athiests? How many of them were receptive to your message about the love of God in Christ?? In my experience, their first reaction is revulsion, hatred, rejection, and willing ignorance and disinterest. Some show interest and are converted; but they are a tiny minority. These are not my opinions, they are the Word of God:

    “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18 KJV)”

    “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16 KJV)”

    “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thessalonians 2:12 KJV)”

    “Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. (Jude 1:11 KJV)”

    “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Matthew 23:15 KJV)”

    “Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him? The officers answered, Never man spake like this man. Then answered them the Pharisees, Are ye also deceived? Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him? But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed. (John 7:45-49 KJV)”

    Scripture, like any truth, can be ‘cherry picked’ in order to teach lies, to twist the truth and make it appear as something else; to teach people to serve Satan rather than God. But the Word of God is not like any other truth written by mere men. God’s words are alive; they have real power; even after they have been spoken or read, they continue to work and will do so until the will of God is accomplished.

    Servant (and anyone else reading this to whom this applies), i implore you, please, be wise. Don’t continue in your wrong understanding, thinking that by being religious, trusting the Church and her distortions of the truth, trusting in men; or trusting in your own heart and all your good works, that you can find merit or salvation with God. Nothing except plain, childlike faith in Jesus and His complete sacrifice for all your sins (now and in the future, even the ones you have forgotten or may commit, since those would logically have to be included for a complete salvation), is acceptable to God. If you persist in trusting in something that your salvation depends on but which is not true, you will not be saved.

    Sincerely,
    Paul

  421. Paul Says:

    Hi Yeap,
    Thanks for your crystal clear response on the commandments and God bless your words! It seems today there is a plague of hearing the word of the LORD and so many are being led astray by “doctrines of demons.” I pray that Servant will understand that we are saved by Christ alone not even believing in Jesus is a WORK it is the gift of God:

    “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: (Philippians 1:6 KJV)”

    Re: doctrines of demons:
    “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; (1 Timothy 4:1 KJV)”

    Cheers
    Paul

  422. Paul Says:

    Servant,
    Maybe i did not make it clear to answer your second question: yes, born-again Christians are not somehow ‘immune’ to sin and somehow by some miracle, like the angels of God once born-again. The difference between an unbeliever and a believer (by believer i mean a born-again Christian) is that:

    Born-again Christians are tempted to sin like anyone, and often fail to do what is right or choose the will of God. But, unlike others, they have an Advocate, who has already paid the price (punishment) for their forgiveness, and it is complete and sufficient.

    “Also now, behold, my witness is in heaven, and my record is on high. (Job 16:19 KJV)”

    “And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— (John 14:16 NIV)”

    “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (1 John 2:1 KJV)”

    So in summary,

    1. Christians desire not to sin, and choose not to sin, whereas before they were born-again, they chose to sin all the time and never thought twice about it. This choosing happens naturally (not maybe immediately after conversion; but as you mature and your love for God and Christ grows);

    2. Christians can resist the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and still deliberately choose to sin. But, unlike when they were unconverted, they are still not at peace with themselves or God about their evil or wrong choice (and in fact, if they do not commit the sin, such as adultery or fornication, the Holy Spirit will persist and trouble them, fighting them to stop them from committing the sin, to prevent them). As you mature as a born-again Christian, your ability to chase after and love sin, your desire to sin gets less; because you are learning to put your body under the control of the Holy Spirit and of God, to be pleasing to Him;

    3. Christians, by the grace of God, in due time, will no longer chase the sins that they did as an unbeliever. I have found this to be the case with my own experience; your nature itself changes, and you no longer have desire for the sins that may have constantly plagued you before you were converted (it can take a long time, depending on how deeply entrenched the lusts against God’s will were entrenched in your life…on how many of your friends and colleagues participated in the same sins, or encouraged you, or even shared in these sins with you…and of course, on how powerfully Satan and his demons were in control of your mind and body, before you turned to Jesus for deliverance);

    4. This is probably the most important point: we are taught as Christians to resist temptation and refuse to join those (including unseen spirits) who tempt us to choose and commit sins against God. We desire to please God, not out of a desire to perform a duty but because we are in love with God and Jesus. Because of our love for Him, we choose not to break His heart. But, if we do choose to do something wrong, we know that we can go back to God and ask His forgiveness. This is not to say that we choose to sin, knowing that we can be forgiven later, or that our sin is covered by the Blood of Christ. It just means that, if we fall, we know that we can have hope that God will forgive us, rather than believing that He will be quick to condemn and judge us and cast us into Hell, the first time we fall. My own experience is that i hate sin and fear God; besides this, i know that if i sin, it weakens my faith in Christ and damages others whom i love. Therefore, i seek to please God but not merely to avoid sin…that is basic…but to become like Jesus and to ‘see God’ in my life.

    If i were to count, i would state unequivocally here that i committed more sins after i became a Christian (including smoking, which is quite destructive to the body) than before. It is almost as if Satan did not want me to get free; but by many means He persuaded me to go after sinful things which i had not done or not so much, before i was converted. But i know and believe that Jesus has forgiven me; not because the Bible says so alone but because i went to God and asked Him to forgive me; and He did so. He gave me a clear conscience again and promised me power to avoid such sins in the future. And i have seen His promises fulfilled. But like St Paul, i am not there yet, by any means. This is not the same thing as a works religion, which has no power and there is no true salvation nor is Christ living within such people who have such a religion.

    i am by no means an expert on the above and this is only my interpretation; on some of these things i could be somewhat or quite wrong. But they make up my personal experience.

    Christians still have the potential to sin and break the Law of God. They are not perfect; but those who are truly converted, while not immune to making evil choices, are God’s children. As such, you will see the living God and Jesus Christ in them and in the things that happen to them; you will see the Kingdom of God being created and, this will make it clear to you if you are an unbeliever, that your time is short.

    Paul

  423. Servant Says:

    Paul: “the vast majority of the world population today is condemmned in their rejection of Christ, implicitly or explicitly…”

    I find it bizarre when I hear things like this, as if human beings have somehow taken over God’s role in judging people. Whether someone goes to heaven or hell is God’s perogative, no? I find it curious how you arrived at the conclusion that these billions of people have ‘rejected Christ’. You mean every single one of them has been visited by a missionary who proclaimed His word to them? And even if so, to expect someone who has lived in a different culture and social environment all his or her life, and then be told to believe in Jesus Christ or risk going to hell, is frankly absurd and doesn’t make any biblical, historical or common sense. God doesn’t create so many people out of love only to condemn them to hell based on a ‘technicality’. He is infinitely bigger, more loving and merciful than that.

    But don’t take my word for it – it is indeed mentioned in the Bible how the Lord will judge people at the end of time (Matt 25:31-46):

    “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

    Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’

    Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’

    Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’

    Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’

    And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

    If you notice, what matters most is about how we treat others, not whether we profess our faith or loyalty to Him or not. And this is something that is probably already being done by people of other religions, including many among the billions that you think are going to hell.

    Please don’t get me wrong – I am not saying that faith is not important. Faith is indeed the foundation of our relationship with the Lord. However, if our actions do not demonstrate our faith (and that includes trying our best to live a holy life according to His law), then our faith is meaningless and is hypocrisy at best.

    Strange, I wonder why Catholics, as the original Christians, are in your ‘condemned’ list too.

    Paul: “Scripture, like any truth, can be ‘cherry picked’ in order to teach lies, to twist the truth and make it appear as something else; to teach people to serve Satan rather than God.”

    I completely agree with you.

  424. Mr2Timothy4v2 Says:

    A religious hypocrite is one who professes to know and serve Christ but who teaches people they are cursed if they try to keep YHWH’s commandments. I never said it your friend Joseph Prince said that therefore he is the religious hypocrite; acting as a Christian while serving another self-made religion. Joseph Prince is the one who is generating money from pagan ungodly rock bands at his auditoriums in the very venue where he said his “Jesus” would be unveiled.That’s hypocrisy. Why does he just not admit he is still a Hindu/Bhudist since he sends his church to parade the Lady of Light (Shakti) and celebrate Chinese New Year in honour of Nien the water dragon (satan)? Why does he just not admit that he is serving the New Age Catholic Spirit Sundae like his friend Munsey? I guess Lawless grace Christianity earns more bucks, I mean every second person is a so-called “christian” these days.

  425. Paul Says:

    Hi Servant,
    In the first part of my reply to you, i gave a few sermons from the Lord Jesus, as that was the base for my comment. I will repeat a few of them here:

    “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18 KJV)”
    “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16 KJV)”
    “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thessalonians 2:12 KJV)”

    My understanding is that religious culture and tradition, whether it be Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic (yes, Catholics were the original Christians or at least, the first mainstream denomination of organized religion; but a great deal of what is taught as doctrine today, and believed by many millions of Catholics, is not in agreement with the Bible and based on the traditions of men or worse), Jewish, Pentecostal, New Age, Jainism, Kabbalah, Mormonism, Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovahs Witness, etc. etc. is not in agreement with the Spirit of God, with the Word of God, with the teachings of Jesus, or with most of the Bible or the central tenets of the truth as oken by Jesus.

    If you are not born again, you will not understand that you are lost, no matter how many hundreds of Christian Bibles, Catholic priests, Hindu Brahmins, Jewish Rabbis, tell you that you are ‘OK.’ Only the living God can bring conviction of sin leading to true repentance toward God; and true faith in the Lord Jesus Christ…and only the Holy Spirit can build up a soul to believe until death of the body, the truth about Jesus. No religion, and no amount of good works, can do anything to free a soul from Satan’s lawful possession.

    Servant, my friend, you say the following:

    “Please don’t get me wrong – I am not saying that faith is not important. Faith is indeed the foundation of our relationship with the Lord. However, if our actions do not demonstrate our faith (and that includes trying our best to live a holy life according to His law), then our faith is meaningless and is hypocrisy at best.”

    Faith in the Christian sense; in the sense of believing what is true even without evidence of the physical senses, isn’t something we generate; it is the gift of God. Nobody who is a believer in something other than Christ; and nobody who does not believe that Jesus IS their Saviour (it’s clearly not enough to have an intellectual belief in Jesus as a good man; that he lived; that he was crucified, etc.), is saved. If someone is not saved in the first place, and trusting in his or her religion, then the first thing they need is to be believe in Christ and abandon their deceitful religion, which cannot save them or truly bring them one iota closer to God (though they may really believe this is not true).

    Are you telling me (indirectly) that people who implicitly reject Christ, but who do many good deeds and help the poor and the sick, will be in Heaven? You don’t know the truth then; or don’t believe it. But that isn’t the point? The point is that saving faith is not found in anyone other than Christ. Servant, do you believe this? Please clarify.

    Secondly, regarding ‘good works’ (in the context of doing good; not doing anything to somehow earn salvation or merit with God, which is taught by all religions but is nothing of Christ). maybe, what the lost people and hurting people in the world really NEEDS are people who trust in Christ, AND submit their will to God, and are led of the Spirit to do good works that bring glory to God. We do NOT need people who reject Christ and do many good works, for they are tares and not wheat. They themselves are still sinners (whether they know it or not); and they are blind people also helping other blind, sick, poor and hungry people on their way to Hell.

    “Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. “(Matthew 25:45 KJV)

    Please do not misunderstand me. Here, when Jesus speaks of “these” (in your version it says ‘brothers of mine, which is fine except i think women are also included!) He is speaking of THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN HIM.

    So….maybe i am wrong; but in my understanding, we are to preach the gospel to the poor, help the poor, sick, in prison and in hospital, and many other such good works BUT our FOCUS is to preach at the same time we help…because there isn’t much point helping someone to function in the world, if we do not make every effort to help them to believe the gospel.

    What do you think?
    Thanks,

    Paul

  426. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Wow. Timothy you are truly full of hate. Why don’t you admit you never believed in Jesus in the first place?

  427. Servant Says:

    Paul

    Most of what you say is based on the assumption that the billions of people have already ‘rejected’ Christ. As I’ve asked before, how have they rejected Christ? Did they even get a chance to know Christ? How can they be condemned for something that is really not their fault?

    Which brings me to my next point. Many people of other religions, while not knowing Christ directly through the Bible and the Church in the usual way, do demonstrate their love for Him in the way that they bring His love to others around them. By loving others (with a sincere and willing heart) the way that Christ loves us, they unknowingly seek Him in a way that we Christians may not understand. Where there is goodness, there is God, as this couldn’t have possibly come from anywhere else. So if these people are eventually saved, it is through the sheer generosity, mercy and love of Christ that we cannot even begin to fathom. This is the Christ that we know.

    Everything that has been said here does not contradict the verses that you have quoted about having to believe in Christ in order to be saved. The salvation of people from other religions is still through Christ as God’s love cannot be constrained. He died for all, not just a select club.

    As for Matthew 25:45 – even if the ‘least of these’ are believers (which is not evident anywhere), how does that change the point that Jesus spoke about the importance of reaching out to them through acts of love?

    Just a suggestion – you may want to find out about the Catholic Church from Catholics, rather than from hearsay by people with an obvious anti-Catholic agenda. A good place to start is http://www.catholicbridge.com.

    God bless!

  428. Paul Says:

    Hi Servant,

    Are you born-again? Would you describe yourself that way?

    Second, your reply regarding the fact that Jesus died for all men, ‘not just a select Club.’ In your reply, you wrote the following:

    ‘As for Matthew 25:45 – even if the ‘least of these’ are believers (which is not evident anywhere), how does that change the point that Jesus spoke about the importance of reaching out to them through acts of love?’

    Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these

    least brothers of mine,

    you did for me.’

    The King James version makes this truth even more explicit (modern versions corrupt the truth the closer the unified world religion, lorded over by AntiChrist, approaches):

    “And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these

    my brethren,

    ye have done it unto me. (Matthew 25:40 KJV)”

    My understanding is that ‘my brethren’ doesn’t include anyone who does not believe Jesus is King; nor those who do not choose to do the will of God (how can Hindus, Brahmins, Christ-rejecting Jews, Muslims, etc. be included here??). Servant, i don’t wish to have an intellectual discussion over verses in the Bible; please can you answer my questions about your personal experience, as i have written here.

    As St Paul said, “(Jesus), Whom we preach, WARNING every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (Colossians 1:28 KJV).” It is clear from the text, Paul is speaking of those who are given the opportunity to read, see (as on video), and hear the gospel of Christ; he is obviously not speaking about those who have never heard.

    However, the Bible appears to support the idea that men, through their love of their own sins, and their own foolishness and fallen nature and distaste for God’s form of holiness and righteousness, are prone to continually reject Christ. Those who continue to do so, and choose another religion, in spite of the fact that the Savior of the world has come (and that, 2000 plus years ago), have no excuse for their evil choice. Do you honestly expect me to believe that sincere Hindus, Jews, and Muslims know ‘nothing’ of the gospel? Even if that is true (and it is less and less true as technology advances), the following verses from God’s word suggest that man as a whole likes to choose to worship anything but God, due to his fall:

    “For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. (Romans 1:17-23 KJV)”

    For this reason, Servant, i reiterate, as i know you are a reasoning person, that God has warned all men clearly, to repent for their unbelief, in His sending of Christ twenty centuries ago. The scripture below, whether you like to hear the truth or not, makes it clear that through His act if mercy, God crucified His own and only Son, to WARN the wicked to repent, and to UNDERSTAND that their time to live a life of sin, and continue to live without trusting in Christ, IN IGNORANCE ended at the moment Jesus died. The passage is a statement of FACT. Servant, have you ever been convicted that your belief system was insufficient to save you?

    I ask, again, have you, personally, ever understood, and come to realise, that you are condemned if you reject Christ? If you have, how can others be saved, if they also do not change their minds about trusting in their religion and good works, to obtain a right relationship, standing, and eternal life here and now; and Heaven with Jesus? Heaven is not Heaven without Christ in it: this is why NO soul who believes in any other ‘Savior’ or ‘god’ will be in Heaven.

    “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18 KJV)”

    People who have a form of religion, but not the power of God ‘unto salvation’ are a group unto themselves on this planet. They constantly work against the Spirit of God to persuade others to join their Satanic crusade. They form religions, some with many millions of members. They (like the Masons and Knights of Columbus and Order of the Eastern Star and Rosicrucians and Knights Templar and Skull and Bones and MANY others) do ‘many good works.’ But all of them reject Christ, the ‘narrow Way,’ as medieval and too lacking in liberty and fraternity or ‘unity in Diversity.’ But all such pagans cannot do anyone real good, because they help the poor along in their way into an eternal pit of despair.

    I believe in loving people; but love without the truth of Christ is not true love.

    God bless,

    Paul

  429. Servant Says:

    Paul

    So are you now saying that there is a salvation difference between those who have ‘heard’ or ‘not heard’ the Gospel? If so, how do you measure or judge this, really? For eg, if ‘sincere Hindus, Jews, and Muslims’ read our exchange on this blog, are they supposed to say: “Oh, I better drop everything in my current religion right away and accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour, so that I’ll be saved”? You and I both know that really getting to know Christ and having an intimate relationship with Him is not always an easy or quick process. If however, someone encounters the Lord fairly (only God knows what is fair), and then consciously chooses to reject Him – then yes, his or her eventual salvation may be in danger.

    Paul: “People who have a form of religion, but not the power of God ‘unto salvation’ are a group unto themselves on this planet. They constantly work against the Spirit of God to persuade others to join their Satanic crusade. They form religions, some with many millions of members. They (like the Masons and Knights of Columbus and Order of the Eastern Star and Rosicrucians and Knights Templar and Skull and Bones and MANY others) do ‘many good works.’ But all of them reject Christ…”

    I don’t think it’s fair that you lump the world’s mainstream religions (eg Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc) with the fringe groups/cults, and imply that they all share the same beliefs and values on their ‘Satanic crusade’. When they reach out to the poor and suffering with a sincere heart (like what is is mentioned in Matthew 25:31-46), how is this going against the Spirit of God? You mean Satan causes them to love others? I will even say that, yes, there IS some goodness in other religions, because Jesus Christ is much bigger than what you say He is – even if people do not know Him directly, His spirit inspires them to do good in their own situations.

    And speaking of Matthew 25:40, I think you may have misunderstood it. ‘My brethren’ refers to the people in need, NOT to the people that Jesus was speaking to. Read it as one sentence and notice that there’s no comma before ‘my brethren’: “And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”. If you look at other major translations, it becomes very clear:

    “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’” (NIV)

    “The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’” (NASB)

    “And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’” (RSV)

    I know you don’t consider other translations to be valid, though many academic scholars will disagree with you; in fact, the newer translations may be more accurate than KJV because of better research, but that is another story.

    If you ask me if I’m ‘born again’, my answer is yes – though not exactly in the same way that you understand. An interesting article on this – http://www.catholicbridge.com/catholic/born_again_catholics.php.

    If you ask me if I’m saved, my answer is “I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul, I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).”

  430. Mr2Timothy4v2 Says:

    “Wow. Timothy you are truly full of hate. Why don’t you admit you never believed in Jesus in the first place?”
    Dear Yeap if we follow the words of Yahshua and the apostle Paul (who NCC claims to follow) then we find that we are most certainly to hate evil.

    Proverbs 8:13
    The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

    I certainly hate the evil that NCC is propogating and serving. If I were to love it I would be a hater of God and as most NCC members incorrectly tell me there are only 2 commandments. Well there are not only two but the two have all the rest of Torah AND the prophets hanging on, and to hate Yahuah would be breaking one of those. Yahshua neither came to destroy the law or the prophets but to fulfill them and we are told to establish those laws in the spirit. As to hating evil the prophets concur.
    Amos 5:15
    Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.

    Now as you will note GRACE does not negate the hating of evil and the loving of good. Instead Amos says Yahuah may be gracious as a result of hating evil and when you make righteous judgement.

    John 7:24
    Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

    I do not judge NCC according to its goosebumps, bells or whistles I judge it according to scripture.

    A hypocrite is one who has no righteous judgement or lacks therein. No if you say I do not believe in “Jesus” then you are right for JP’s Jesus did not say to the hypocrtical Pharisees the following, but Yahshua did

    Mat 23:23
    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the WEIGHTIER matters of the law, JUDGEMENT, MERCY, and FAITH ( moral conviction to actually obey the Torah): these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

    The prophets concur:
    Hosea 12:6
    Therefore turn thou to thy God: keep mercy and judgment, and wait on thy God continually.

    now JP said “Jesus” is not your judge. Again this is another Son of YHWH then….

    Acts 17:31
    Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    JP hates you and loves his money, like a Pharisee he has no mercy on the lost who he is leading to hell with his ear tickling profits.

    It is because I love the lost that I tell them to hate their evil and sin and repent- that is true revival.

    I finish with Paul who NCC incorrectly uses as a license for sin (from Galatians and Romans) as Peter warned (II Peter 3:16). Paul now makes what Amos the prophet said even stronger

    Romans 12:9
    Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

    Note now he does not say “hate” he goes further using the stronger word “abhor” (utterly detest) and not only love but “cleave” (stick like glue) to good. He makes it clear that there is a correct love and a wishy washy one.

    I am tired of hearing the mantra “love” “love” in these hippy churches sounding like the Beatles singing “all you need is love”. Paul is telling you that is NOT love it is dissimulation.

    ([*StrongsGreek*]
    505 anupokritos an-oo-pok’-ree-tos from 1 (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of 5271; undissembled, i.e. sincere:–without dissimulation (hypocrisy), unfeigned. see GREEK for 1 see GREEK for 5271

    it is hypocrisy like a Pharisee. HATE evil an love good -get out of that ecumenical Babylon loving church and stick to one that is good and loves YHWH and his commandments.

    I John 5:3
    For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

  431. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Looks like you have just condemned yourself, Mr Pharisee.

  432. Paul Says:

    Hi Mr2Timothy,
    Sorry for the delayed response, i have been busy. It seems you are a. Torah follower? Do you follow the Talmud? You know that the. Talmud states that “goyim are excrement” do you not? You know that the Talmud states that to take (steal) anything from a goy is just and right and totally permitted, for a Jew? Please comment.

    Also, i think you should know that if you worship Jehovah, or Yahweh, you are worshipping Baal, the Phoenician god.

    See: http://biblehub.com/hebrew/1180.htm

    And see: http://12tribes.blog-pad.com/jehovah-and-yahweh-are-baal

    Yes, i know, these interpretations were written by a goy and, therefore, not acceptable to you if you trust in the “learned Elders and scribes of Zion.” But friend, please do your due diligence before replying in haste, and thoroughly check WHOM you are REALLY worshipping.

    As our Lord Jesus said, the sabbath was “MADE FOR MAN AND NOT MAN FOR THE SABBATH.” That being true, do you REALLY believe that GOD REQUIRES CHRISTIANS TO KEEP THE SABBATH? If so, then are not SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS THE ONLY CHRISTIANS. ON Earth (300,000 out of about 7,000,000,000)?.

    People who have been born again by the Spirit have the best life; every day is new, because they are with God. In their trials and tribulations, failures and challenges, Jesus is with us. It is the best life, because they walk with God and see so much more than they did (and i mean, through the eyes of the Spirit, not head knowledge alone); it is an exciting, awesome journey! But if you are NOT born from above, you will NOT be able to comprehend God, and your fleshly mind will still, unfortunately, operate within its finite limited sphere. Religion, including following and obeying commandments (as Jews, Muslims, Jehovah Witnesses, Hindus and Buddhists and many others do including ‘good Masons’ and ‘white witches’) is not of faith and cannot please God.

    What pleases God, is to know Him, to love Him in Spirit and in truth and to be known of Him. True believers do ‘keep the Commandments” but, as Yeap rightly made very clear to you all, they do so IN THE SPIRIT and that means JESUS living within us is the One doing that glorious work; it is NOTHING from our flesh, which, by itself, CANNOT please God.

    Please comment.

    Thanks
    Paul

  433. Small Says:

    I’ve studied the bible for years. I’ve also been part of many different types of christian groups from catholics, evangelicals to extreme charismatics. In fact, I’ve seen almost every extremity.

    Some of the things that make certain people follow others is either they trust a person’s intellectual reasoning on scripture or they believe a person is truly ordained to lead or they believe that the leader is led of the Spirit and experiencing spiritual things from God. The Pharisees are an example of those who believe in God’s power, while the Sadducees tended more to the intellect.

    Some people would like us to believe that there needs to be a union between the word and the spirit. What they are preaching is that the charismatics have the Spirit and the evangelicals have the word (bible) but all that is happening is people are being tricked into marrying two falsehoods.

    The peace of God surpasses all understanding. The resurrection is not just a resurrection of the mind or even the body but a spiritual resurrection. When someone becomes famous, they can be lifted up. They become drunk on a power that resurrects them but this is not the resurrection of God. The resurrection of God is superior to any other type of resurrection because ……

  434. Francis Njoroge Mwangi Says:

    Am blessed

  435. Paul Says:

    Looks like this blog is fairly well done, Yeap. Time to stick a fork in it?

  436. Jo Says:

    There is not a single preacher in the world who can satisfy my hunger for truth. They used to but they’ve all become like a repeating song thats getting old. I also no longer believe man’s interpretation of the bible. All my old theology books and interpretations were put in the trash can man years ago. I still believe the bible is holy and mysterious but I also believe that when someone knows what something really means, they’re not supposed to preach about it but simply to live it because the kingdom of God is not in word.

  437. C K Yap Says:

    When I saw some of the wonders built by major religions I also asked why – it is a question that God asked Abraham – why, Abe, do you want to build altar and temple and so on?

    So it’s not that both sides are wrong or right, we can side with a god from beyond or a righteous member of our species. What is important is how we raise the money – by selling things congregations really need but some churches don’t have any spiritual resources like you and me and it’s so pitiful in the way they dare to ask for money.

  438. Servant Says:

    It’s the age-old question in Christianity today – who has the ‘correct’ interpretation of the Bible, the way God meant it to be?

  439. Sam45 Says:

    To think that we as a generation have greater truths than those who went before us in history is simply presumptuous and arrogant. People ought to consider that they simply do not know what went on before us because history is normally written by the privileged, just like the “christian” television today which is run by the influential. This most likely applies to all media. Do the poor have their say? Not really! I guess they do have an audience with God.. but its not going to be announced on the streets but in a room with a closed door.

    The babbling in the world/church goes on and on, just like the hypocrites standing in public who are spoken of in the bible, giving long winded explanations and prayers of something that is too wonderful for them to be worthy of speaking about. They show their benevolence in public (just like the bible hypocrites) and nothing is sacred – everything they do must be advertised. Its like a form of pornography for the bride and the bridegroom.

    So you tithe and you let people know about it? You’ve mostly likely now received your reward in full and forfeited a heavenly reward just like hypocrites talked about in the bible.

  440. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Most of us are not ashamed of tithing.

  441. Sastra John Says:

    Mr Yeap
    are you still attending NCC?
    I’m interested.. How do I contact you?

  442. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Not any more.

  443. Felix Tsung-Hsien Lim Says:

    Dear Yeap Seng I don’t mean to offend you but I do feel that you have been very misled by some strange church salvation doctrines and I feel very sorry about it. Let me help you first by stating that salvation is only on the part of God’s free grace for his chosen people that he loves and paid the sacrificial price for to receive divine mercy and forgiveness of si paid by Jesus death on the cross alone that makes true redemption possible. This is what is meant by the doctrine of free grace and limited atontement that by the life he for atonement of sin is the sinner made justified by his gift of free grace . Romans 5:7, 11 and not by works that any one can boast . Your subsequent surrendering of your life to Christ by faith and commitment to him is but a response in repreicating his finished work o calavary so any commitment on your part to fllow and obey him in your response to his sacrificial love and offering for sin to receive grace for redemption comes spiritually and natrully back form your love and commitment back to him . Please by all means quit NCC if you don’t feel it is suitable for you for not many people are aware of the fact that any comiited member of NCC has to pay a portion of their income by default as a commited member to the church and often they do it as gratitude and commitment out of the blesings they receive thru the church and its qauriky ministry . So yes, there is a hidden trap for such is the Trojan bomb of prosperity doctrine preachers . Putting that aside , there are no rules and demands to follow in regards to supporting any given earthly church and missions for just as you are set free from sin by grace, you are also made a srvant of god and slave to his righteousness by the same spirit of fre grace . Being very Calvinist, I would agree with you and join you in unision against any to any commitment to support any church , evangelism and global missions or great commission and discipleship because it is God who decides who is saved by his grace thru Christ and your subsequent in following Christ means that the holy spirit will guide you to serve and witness for Christ as fisher of men athis won time and place mysteriosuly with the people you meet and in the daily responisibities and situations you are faced with without the need for any church and his act of love and free grace of salvation to those whom he had called and chosen and not from any act of anybody’s human intitative . .I would like to encourage you to resume your commitment back to Christ in resposne to his offfering of free grce and his love and mercy for his salvation where you have left off and put all that is past behind you and don’t get discouraged any further . that even st paul wrote in Phillippians 3 that I have not yet attain perfection but I put all that is passed behind and press forward reaching out for the gaol of God’s highcalling in Christ for salvation . Do this right now and re-commit it all in prayer and you will be fine. Further more, the letter to Thesslonia writes that may the love and grace of God the father strengthen and comfort you and establish you in all good words and in works . God bless and I will pray that this will come true for you .

    Felix Th LIM

  444. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Try us use paragraphs next time.

  445. log 1104 Says:

    I find so much humor here. For many, anything more than 2 lines here, we get preachy, pretentious holier than thou words. So many friends of Job. I think they can have a party. Chee Seng, I love your 1-2 liners. Hits home.

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  447. kit fan Says:

    1) nope, never forced to tithe in NCC. never.
    2) before believing Jesus, no good works will ever save me. now saved, no bad works will ever un-save me.
    3) NCC is close to paying its full amount for the Star building. And we only EVER had 4 fund raising services. No pledges, no series on tithing, no collection of offering during caregroups, nothing. And the money were not invest in this and that bond, etc.
    4) JP hasn’t receive any salary from the church since 2008. He cannot even sign anything in $$$ from the church. He is not in church board.
    5) Overseas medical missions etc nearly every month. Money is distributed into mission, not horded up.
    6) Always told to pray for other churches.
    7) All money sent from overseas as tithes are rejected and returned back because tithes should belong to local church.

    I suggest people experience first then talk later.

  448. Servant Says:

    Kit

    Referring to your point (2), are you saying that people who have never heard of Jesus are bound for hell? Also, how do you explain the following verses (spoken by our Lord himself)?

    Matthew 25:31-46

    “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous* will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’

    Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

  449. justin2343 Says:

    The gospel very clearly teaches that those who are righteous are those who do right. If you do right, it is evidence that God lives in you.

    What is right? An idea is given in the parable above and many other stories found in scripture e.g. the Good Samaritan.

    Being righteous is about being just = justice, fairness, reasonableness. There is a lot of crookedness and unfairness in the world. Someone who is a christian ought to be different. If not, then you may want to consider giving up your faith to do what is right.

  450. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    One advice. Read the Bible.

  451. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    By the way, I do right because I want to. Not because I have to. I am already saved. I do not need to force myself to do right to create the “evidence” for my salvation.

  452. Justin2343 Says:

    No doubt scoffers will block their ears, gnashing their teeth and ignoring the following or trying to justify themselves:-

    If you are wise and understand God’s ways, PROVE IT! by living an honorable life, doing good works with the humility that comes from wisdom. James 3:13

    The gospel teaches us to do good. A truly spiritual person does not care about his own salvation and is not pre-occupied with it e.g. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. Matthew 16:25
    Another example: – For I could almost wish to be cursed and cut off from the Messiah for the benefit of my brothers, my own flesh and blood. Romans 9:3

    If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. James 4:17
    Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 1 John 3:7
    If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him 1 John 2:29
    Do not be overcome with evil but evil with good Romans 12:21
    Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life Gal. 6
    He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. Romans 2
    No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.” Luke 16:13

    I would recommend that seekers read their bibles without prejudice or pre-conceived theology. Simon the sorcerer was a man who believed the gospel and was baptised.

    Even SIMON HIMSELF BELIEVED, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed. (book of Acts)

    God cannot be mocked. It is not enough to believe because faith without works is dead.

  453. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Looks like you have never attended an evangelical event.

  454. justin 2343 Says:

    The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to INSIST on these things, so that those who HAVE believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to GOOD WORKS. These things are excellent and profitable for people. Titus 3:8

    The bible teaches us to do good works. Good works come from a good motive, a pure motive, a truly miraculous God given motive.

    As opposed to works of the flesh e.g.

    Giving and letting others know about it Matt 6:2
    Believing you are standing strong and looking down on your neighbour 1 Cor 10:12
    Praying to be seen by others Matt 6:5
    Condemning truly good people who do what is right 5:11
    Using christianity to cover up your own evil 1 Peter 2:16, Matt 23:27
    Not helping victims of oppression James 1:27

    and the list goes on..

    The evidence that someone is filled with the Spirit of God does not come from a declaration of one’s faith alone but is seen in one’s actions and how we treat others Gal 5:22,23

    The bible is filled with exhortations like the above. We must humble ourselves and not believe we are rich, even if we’ve received huge blessing ( Luke 6:24 ) but instead become humble (1 Pet 5:6) because it is the poor in SPIRIT who will inherit the kingdom of God, not those who profess to have EVERYTHING already. We are exhorted to hunger and thirst for what is good (righteousness) and ask God to help do this through us Romans 6:13

  455. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Good motive means you are not blackmailed into it.

  456. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Looks like you are still immature. You should get the basics right first. Stop trying to teach others. Your teachings are all wrong.

  457. justin 2343 Says:

    “Foxes have holes and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head”

    We can choose one particular nest, a certain theology, a fixed system of beliefs but in the end we will dig a hole for ourselves to fall in or we become complacent resting in a nest built by others, somewhere high up in the trees. There are plenty of those offering these solutions. Still, God is there to help us out if we are willing to let go of the things that do not bring peace and bear fruit. Truth cannot be found without seeking and embarking on a journey which is going to seem extremely difficult at times but not without spiritual rewards for one person has described faith as follows” because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek Him”

  458. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I repeat. Get the basics right first. You are not up to the meaty stuff yet.

  459. Justin2343 Says:

    God is not unfair to anyone of any religion or none. There is nothing wrong with God at all. There is nothing wrong with the old testament either for God is just and fair without fault Deuteronomy 32:1-4. The old testament and the new testament are the same gospel. Jesus never came to abolish Mosaic law, even apparent ceremonial law but it these laws are twisted by evil interpretations which downgrade Moses, Elijah and the prophets. All in Gods kingdom are ONE and speak the same message. The man they call Jesus explained that the whole of the law and prophets can be summed up in one saying Matthew 22:40

    Of a truth, God will render to everyone according to their works (what they have done) Romans 2:6. God is not a respecter of persons, creed, culture, religion or none. The scripture also teaches that God will hold people accountable for their idle words Matthew 12:36. If someone did wrong because they were deceived, then God is fair/just and will forgive their ignorance 1 Tim. 1:13 but if someone is taught about right and knows the truth of God and denies it by their actions, then these people are considered to be unbelievers I John 2:4.

    God is really not unjust and if you read the bible carefully, it becomes clearer that those who have received something will be expected to do a lot, while those who have little or no knowledge are not held responsible like the others. Luke 12:48

    If someone is a man of God, they will not need anyone’s approval because in the end it is God who will search the hearts and minds of every single person and no stone will be left unturned. John 5:44

    My advice for those who have truly experienced the Spirit of God touching their lives is to be open to learn from God Himself teaching through everything we interact with in our lives and to learn from this. It is not enough to know God Romans 1:21 but it is more important to be known by God (Galatians 4:9)

    Remember that those are are rejected probably knew God, but His servant NEVER knew them Matthew 7:23

    How can God know you unless you start being honest with him? Confess your sins to God and he will forgive you.. humble yourself under the mighty Hand of God and He will lift you up

    Do not mock God, neither his true servants!

  460. Justin2343 Says:

    The book of Esther in most renderings never mentions the name God. Why? Maybe its because in this case the bible is teaching us about what is right and wrong. What is right and wrong? What is righteousness and unrighteousness?
    If no-one has ever read the book of Esther, then maybe the following Youtube video is a good start. I found the following video which simply reads the book from beginning to end without explaining it. Maybe some people want to give their ideas on what they think after they have finished the book. I think this is the last time I will post here, so I wish everyone who reads this a blessing and may you find what you need for this moment in your life.

  461. John Wilde Says:

    Maybe I am in the wrong chapter but after having lived several years in Singapore and mixing with those professing to be bible believing christians I have found myself to be in the midst of one of the most materialistic societies in the world. The teachings of New Creation church and those of similar ilk only seem to amplify my conclusions that Singapore is not open to the gospel.

  462. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Singapore is open to the Gospel, just not the Taliban version of yours.

  463. Servant Says:

    John

    Your statement is a tad sweeping, no? Are New Creation church and “those of similar ilk” the only churches in Singapore?

  464. David Says:

    Just to share something I had to share. I dun really know where to start, but I just probably start with how I became a believer of Christ, and accepted the fact the Jesus died on the cross, and by believing in the finished work of God, I am now saved, and without in any way have the ability to fall out of God’s grace, because for God the heavenly father, so loved us, and gave us Jesus, so as to never perish, but to have eternal life.

    A little background of myself, I was raised and born in a christian family, and had many questions in my head since young. Back then my family and I were having so many problems in walk of life, and the church we attended was FCBC, where they preach a teaching on a mixture on grace and law. Our family faced many problems, be it business or relationship problems, and I have, even up til now having a resentment against my father.

    To be honest, I have in fact backslided from christ himself, meaning to reject God, when I saw the problems. Why did our heavenly father that made us, allow things like death to happen in our family. I had a tough life, when my father’s sister husband died due to heart attack, I reproached myself. The reason being, if I had not ask my aunt to come over to my house to resolve the problems that I had with my dad, he would not had die. On top of that, my youngest brother is diagnose with autism at the very age of 3, and our family was dealt with another great blow.

    Ever since young, my mom and dad neglected me and my second brother alot, and would have to spend more time and attention to him. I was immature back then, and i resented my brother, more even so God, that had “made” our family to have such sufferings. There are even more sufferings and pains, throughout my walk in life, which I don’t really feel like explaining here, as typing is just a chore to me. All in all, I resented God.

    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” From FCBC, even though it was a mixture of the law and grace of God, I only came to understand this one verse. All the things that were taught, doesn’t seem to sit well with me, because it contradicts this very verse in the bible.

    And then, when I was Primary 5, my parents forced me to go to NCC. From there I learn many things, and felt the touch of God. I did not know from what verse, what line that compelled me to believe God loves me, or whatever the topic, I came to understand this very fact. God is above all entity of the world. Having that said, whatever he does or do, is something that we cannot change, for he is greater than us. Back then I felt the thirst of understanding his word. I came to found out that at that very moment, I believed in John 3:16, I was saved. I was saved very since very young, because he promised us that, who ever believes in the work of God, Jesus sacrifice, from the very bottom of my heart, and those that was unveiled the veil, will be saved. I saw my life turning for the better. Goals that I set for myself, direction of what I want to do, making th change in my family problems.

    And then another problem came, guess what. I backslided again. And again. And again. The first few weeks of going to NCC gave me a very new revelation of being love by the heavenly father, but I did not know what I needed to know. Something that people have been missing out. My life failed badly, even though I still have my ups, like for example, being able to earn 4k a month, at the very age of 20, WHILE I WAS STUDYING IN POLYTECHNIC, made me feel like, wow, God really love me..

    I remember once Pastor Prince said about the testimonial about the pastor that set sailed to a conference and there was a storm. He wanted to get to the place on time, and prayed to the lord to calm the storm for he did not want to be late. Upon hearing that, on my way to work one day, when it was raining heavily, I prayed “Lord, Abba Father, let me witness your tender loving care and make me not drenched, for being drenched at work is not what I want.” My faith was shabby back then to be honest, but guess what? The rain was still brewing, and the very moment i STEPPED OUT OF SHELTER, the rain stop. And then I said, “Praise the Lord. Thank you Abba Father for letting me know so true that you love me.”

    In my walk of this 22 years, (I am 22 years old now), yes, I do admit that I am young, but I have experienced so many miracles of God, even though, I have not fully understand what God is conveying to me. But again, guess what, each time upon receiving this unmerited favour, this grace of God, I BACKSLIDED. I was sad, depressed, and was diagnosed with insomnia. I yearn for knowing God’s work, but I did not have the courage to pick up the bible, because I was afraid of various things; backsliding again, not being able to comprehend what He wanted me to comprehend, punishing me for backsliding, and etc and etc.

    After several years of backsliding and being truly blessed by the miracles that I seen, I have concluded to the fact that I did not have the faith in believe God. And that’s when I started looking for other religions, trying to learn more about science, doing alot of things to understand my purpose. You know, I the kind of person that tend to think more about stuff, but I probably won’t want to add what I have concluded for worldly stuff here. But all in all, I could not find GOD anywhere.

    But just recently, I have a fresh encounter with God. And that shook my very heart. No churches, no funny nonsense, something that explains everything that I explained everything I am facing. Somewhere deep in my heart, when I listened to the sermons that my friend introduced to me, I became enlightened, and at that very night when I heard, I felt the fear of the Lord. But it also embraced me with everlasting love and peace. I realised that what I have been searching by myself, had been self effort, self effort all the very time. But no, when I came into the Gospel of Grace. I was moved by God’s tremendous work at the cross. I was not the one that chose to accept God, but God who is all knowing, knowing very well, that I will surely sin in this life, chose me.

    I realised the very fact that only the truth can set you free from any religious teachings, or any other “ways of life”. And this very truth varies from person to person I believe. And it is only the will of God that will dictates that truth presented to you. Whether you are listening from a church that is preaching the wrong stuff, probably it might be bad here and there, but as you seek to find God. He will reveal himself. The revelations that I received in 3 days was far greater than what I recieved 21 years of my life. And I am still learning, seeking to understand God’s will, and pray that he will lead me to his will, his grace, and be a testimonial to everyone around me, that God is good.

    Maybe to some, this sermons might not impact the way of your thinking, maybe it would. I just pray that God might unveil the eyes of his people soon.
    Just this simple verse, of John 3:16, that I believe every christian know from the very bottom of their heart, as long as you believe, God will one day reveal who he is, what he has for you, and what he want to do for you, with you. Be part of God’s plan. And when you submit, you can never describe the joy that you have finally found.

    Lastly, I thank God for taking away my pride day by day. I have too much pride in me. All glory to God. I am nothing in front of you lord.

    P.S. At some point of my life, I in fact did believed the prosperity gospel. But I now know that, be it rich or poor, healthy or sick, in the end times, I will surely be with God, for he loved me so much.

  465. Jocelyn Says:

    I’ve bn to NCC n even signed up for the membership class but never get baptized in the church due to physical reasons. I left the church after two years there bcos I found tt I wasn’t worshipping God I was worshipping Pastor Prince. For these two years I always got excited to go church to hear him speak n bot as many DVDs/CDs/VCDs just to listen to his sermons. Then I begun to talk about him to my colleagues frens family members n I even invited my sister my doter to church. But I dint spend time reading the Bible. Instead of saying what God says I found myself always saying Pastor Prince says… Then it took me one Sunday morning when I was expecting to see the pastor speaks, we were told he had sthg on so we were told to watch a video sermon instead. Tt moment caused me to realise I was really actually worshipping him bcos I felt disappointed angry n frustrated why he wasn’t present! Then I stopped attending this church n spent time reading God’s word again. Our salvation depends on our PERSONAL relationship with God not on human’s perspective n their sayings. I’m not asking u to stop attending tis church but my advice is KNOW GOD’S WORD THRO HIS HOLY WORD!

  466. Dave Says:

    ” But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice!” (Phil 1:18)

  467. Benson Says:

    Joseph Prince keep preaching that salvation is only by grace and not by keeping the laws of Moses . The facts are that there are no such thing as the laws of Moses. They are God’s laws that were handed down to Moses from God .
    It’s true that nobody is saved by keeping the so called laws of Moses ,and that salvation is by grace by Jesus Christ.
    But the ten commandments are laws for us to live by if we want to live in peace and under one true God. and not to be saved by keeping them. The only reason that the world is in such a mess today is because we are all breaking those laws and making up our own laws.
    Joseph Prince is saying don’t worry about keeping the laws of Moses ,just believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
    Joseph Prince also have no idea of what being born again really means.
    Jesus was born again by his resurrection from the dead. The scriptures also say that he is the first born again.The rest of humanity will be born again after the resurrection and not before. Born Again doesn’t mean that we are saved .

  468. Benson Says:

    Jesus Christ was killed not because he was preaching the Gospel of goodness ,but because he was preaching politics. The main true Gospel of Jesus Christ was mainly about the kingdom of God and that he will be the king of that kingdom.
    But the rulers of that time misinterpreted that , that Jesus was going to try to overthrow them and rule in their place. Jesus did answer and said that his kingdom was not of this world.
    The facts are clearly explained in Matt 24 ,when Jesus was asked about the end of the world. at the end of Matt 24 .Jesus predicted his second coming after the great tribulation, To renew the world and to set up the kingdom of God on the earth. Joseph Prince seems to also have no idea what the true gospel is all about.
    Sure that Jesus preached goodness as well ,and Satan will exploit that by using many preachers like Joseph Prince to hide the meaning of the true gospel by hiding the real message that Jesus Christ died for. Which is the government of God on earth.
    That prophecy of the kingdom of God on earth is also revealed in the old testament , in a dream by the king, in the dream the king had about a large statue made of different metals. and then that dream was interpreted by Daniel to the king. The stone which destroyed the statue is symolising the return of Jesus Christ destroying all of the kingdoms of men and setting up the kingdom of God on earth a kingdom that will last forever.
    Why Isn’t Joseph Prince preaching the true gospel .
    We all Know that God loves us and how good God and great God really is .But not many know the true gospel that Jesus Christ had died for.

  469. Benson Says:

    Joseph Prince is preaching a false gospel. The true gospel is not about how much God loves us, and how good God really is .we all already know all that stuff and it’s true, God is good, and God is great.
    But the foundation of the true gospel of Jesus Christ was all about Jesus revealing to us that God is going to set up his kingdom on the earth and that Jesus is going to be the king of God’d kingdom and he will be ruling all off the nations on earth. .
    The bible is a book that goes on after it had been studied and read. The bible comes alive as soon as we walk out the door. The birds, the trees, the wind, the sun, etc, etc ,are all revealed in the book of Genesis,which also reveals the powers of our great God in action, and before our own eyes for all to see.
    The violence, the wars ,the chaos that exists all over the world are also stories told in the bible, those atrocities reveal the hate and rebellion of Satan.
    If preachers like Joseph Prince were to teach the people to study the bible by observing the world around them as well as reading the bible , then i might consider him to be a true preacher of Jesus Christ instead of a servant of Satan.

  470. Dave Says:

    I do not follow Joseph Prince but what I’ve noticed is that he is certainly more gifted than his persecutors. His main persecutors can’t stand him because he is not only more powerful a speaker but his teaching helps people to question their beliefs, even if they end up not agreeing with Joseph and following another path. Joseph can help many escape those evil men and hopefully one day his followers can escape Joseph too and not follow any man because people in the end must find the truth on their own. That would make his ministry meaningful.
    Those other ministers are jealous of Joseph because he has put questions in people’s minds.Those who are losing their grip are mainly from the gang of jealous ministers who are now secretly accusing Joseph by their sermons on hypergrace. (google hypergrace to find out who they are) Those ministers don’t dare confront Joseph but prefer to incite others to do their dirty work.
    As I said, I don’t follow Joseph but I certainly would be careful to give credit where it is due.
    On another note, repentance means a chance of mind. If ministers are always believing and teaching the same things since day one, then its not possible that they are experiencing repentance. Repentance even means that your views on what the bible teaches and what it means should change throughout your life. This would include us all and Joseph too. Woe to those who can never change their minds!

  471. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    Even if he does that, somebody else will still have different standards. He is still a servant of Satan in their judgement.

    The bottom line is, if you seek men’s approval they will always call you a servant of Satan.

  472. Samantha Says:

    Thank you for this blog post! I’m a non-believer (used to go churches but it makes me more paranoid and confused) but is gradually going to NCC nowadays because of my son. I’m still skeptical but anything to give me inner peace should be the one. I totally agree with you. Thanks!

  473. kelvin Says:

    Great blogger!

  474. Yone Says:

    Dr. Michael Brown has too many videos attacking people he does not know and has never met.

  475. MRS S Goga Says:

    GOD is there where there is peace!

  476. Sam Elbonias Says:

    David, we are all born into sin. When we are born again, for the first time in our physical life outside the womb, we ‘know’ what sin is! And we know that it is something God cannot accept. At the very same moment of time, we ALSO know that God loves us in an infinite way. Therefore, i am blessed by your words and your testimony: “Be part of God’s plan. And when you submit, you can never describe the joy that you have finally found.” Yes, please do not stop holding onto Christ. It is a love relationship we have been given as a gift; one which we must seek grace from God to maintain (like any other relationship!); although (just like any other relationship!) sometimes, we will feel lacking in love toward God and/or Jesus; and we want to (and do) choose to do sinful things. If you feel (at 22) that you have backslidden, you would be shocked to know how MUCH MORE i have done so — in spite of my very unique conversion testimony. For instance, porn was a terrible habit for me for decades. It was such a bondage, i would quickly finish my schoolwork or paid work, to rush home and jump onto the computer (before that, it was videos). In the work of God through Pastor Prince, i have seen and experienced Christ in a very different way from before (i am a Christian for 25 years and i was born again by faith, at about your age now), in spite of being part of several churches in four countries. It is my prayer that what great light appears to be coming from the LORD into and through Pastor Prince to all the world, that millions upon millions of Christians will be strengthened and encouraged in numerous ways, and ways they have not known until now; and that many others who have not known the LORD, will do so and all of us blessed through his ministry, will become a lasting and living testimony for the works of God in the world. Sure, Pastor Prince has many faults; and his “Destined To Reign” (unlike his second book, which was MUCH better and MUCH more mature) certainly contained a lot of speculative material; and, maybe even some unscriptural things (or tenuously true things); but this does not change the fact that i see Christ’s love much more clearly now than in the past 25 years! I do hope you will not abandon the truth that Pastor Prince has shared; if anything he has shared is wrong and displeasing to God — ignore it and forget it (i don’t believe in the tithe for example — it seems to be a mechanism to get $ from the church and is, like income tax, entirely unnecessary) but, what is GOOD, HOLD FAST TO!!!

  477. Sam Elbonias Says:

    Wow, Benson, i don’t know where to start! You accuse Joseph Prince of teaching people: “The only reason that the world is in such a mess today is because we are all breaking those laws and making up our own laws.
    Joseph Prince is saying don’t worry about keeping the laws of Moses ,just believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved.” Wow. So, you believe that BY ANY OTHER MEANS a soul can be saved, OTHER than believing in the Lord Jesus Christ??? Sounds like you are making up your own “laws.” Second, you say the following, entirely unscriptural statement: “Jesus was born again by his resurrection from the dead. The scriptures also say that he is the first born again.The rest of humanity will be born again after the resurrection and not before. Born Again doesn’t mean that we are saved.” I see. Why did Jesus say to Nicodemus: “ye MUST BE BORN AGAIN”. You are terribly misinformed; if you are an example of what “being a Christian” means in Singapore, you make all Singaporean Christians look like complete idiots.

  478. george man Says:

    the world will know that you belong to Christ by your fruits. everyone should be a skeptic. How do i know that you are not using the first layer right now writing this blog? My take is that everyone has tendencies to do evil. My biggest problem with church is always been tithing and the acts of the pastor whether they follow what they preach. Also be logical in the faith and not wavering in the message and has to be in line with the Bible.

  479. george man Says:

    Joseph might be a decent person but my vegetarian gripe is the fact that he seems more like marketing. himself rather than marketing Christ. Also laying of hands or believe Jesus into your heart concept bothers me. Plus seems like a lot of followers that follow blindly. Again Joseph might be a decent guy but until i see the actual sacrifice and actual life behind the camera without any benefits or marketing scheme or tracking then he gets credit in heaven else it’s just another scheme to get $$ , you can add not just 1 layer but multiple layers of schemes i mean look at the scietologist

  480. Yeap Chee Seng Says:

    I only believe in the first layer

  481. Jonathan Says:

    Dear Yeap. Seems that you found the grace of NCC rather than the grace of the lord Jesus. I don’t have to attend NCC church to find the person “grace”. Your article depicts a narrow and selfish mind serving two masters. When you don’t want to part with your money, you call other pastors a crook. When you feel the message is right for you, you call the pastor a respected person.

    So what’s the point of your blog? To share Grace and in turn receive prosperity or to bombard other churches and pastors as if you are more principled and holier person than them?

    As far as I am concerned, your blog article did not give Grace a good name because you did not show grace to the so called Crooked Pastors.


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